[p2p-research] [p2p energy economy] Fwd: Follow up

[marc fawzi]

I just want to say that I have a huge respect for Ryan and all his
input to this collective realization. Same for everyone here.

I am having my own archetypal struggle ATM as far as ideologies and
behaviors go, but this group really has a great effect on my thinking,
so please don't take my challenges as obstruction but rather as
stemming from my need to harvest the collective psyche :)

Its never easy being on the fringe. Feels like bumper cars. Like we
should be able to put our thoughts tohbether in a more collective way.

I'll leave it to Michel to make those connections.

We can make a difference. I've seen it happen.

Thanks,

Marc


On 4/16/09, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ryan,
>
> I find your contribution very interesting, because it touches the key
> problem of the interoperability and exchangeability of multiple currencies
> which may have little in common.
>
> As it is under-discussed, I would really appreciate if you could address
> this issue for our blog, by expanding a little on your contribution here,
> with an extra context for lay people so they understand its importance?
>
> Michel
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Marc:
>>
>> This may seem a bit governmental, but I'd argue the key to your system is
>> the policy objective a given currency wishes to optimize--set through some
>> collaborative governance mechanism or by a representative group (e.g. a
>> chamber of commerce or a community foundation).
>>
>> Use arbitrage between currencies allow different "pots" of money to
>> reallocate.  In a prison, cigarettes might be used to buy services, and
>> cans
>> of mackeral used to buy goods, but you can have a market between mack and
>> cigs.
>>
>> In other words, think of a rainbow of color currencies.  Orange is for
>> this, blue is for that.  If you want blue to optimize efficient production
>> of non-carbon energy, price it in energy units accordingly.  Let market
>> mechanisms reallocate with possible REGULATORY governance actions that can
>> intervene to change supply/demand in arbitrage options.
>>
>> There is a tendency for people to dislike markets because of some of their
>> failings.  That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  The key to a
>> polyarchic currency system, I believe, is to allow rapid creation of
>> policy
>> objectives (new colors) combined with rapid introduction of market-based
>> arbitrage between colors.  Use limited numbers of price-settings in
>> auctions
>> to reduce speculative games.  In other words, the rate set between orange
>> and blue may only be set twice a day, etc.
>>
>> Who sets?  The high bidder, up to some limit...then the next highest
>> bidder, and so forth.
>>
>> The key is allowance of persistent coupon systems matching policy aims
>> (like a bond market really, but more liquid and fungible).  In current
>> worlds, that aim (the policy objective of a currency) is the growth of a
>> given currency economy or allowance of government actions that can use
>> currency devaluation to achieve some governmental policy objective (e.g.
>> short term consumption against long-term pain.)
>>
>> Ryan Lanham
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 11:24 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just sharing some notes on the current problems in the P2P Energy Economy
>>> model
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 9:23 PM
>>> Subject: Follow up
>>> To: James Edwards <bluecollargreenie at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi James,
>>>
>>> I'm sorry to have dropped the ball on our discussion re: energy flow
>>> based
>>> currency...
>>>
>>> I went to Arizona where we had no Internet and learned all about solar
>>> power
>>>
>>> Then I became homeless for a while, lost my girlfriend, etc
>>>
>>> And now I'm back to work thanks to a sudden and unexpected turn of events
>>>
>>> The problems with the P2P Energy Economy as of v3.00.00 boil down to
>>> this:
>>>
>>> Issue 1:
>>>
>>> "it's hard to see how individual energy producers would have any
>>> substantial surplus if they had tiny solar generators and it's even
>>> harder
>>> to see how there could be a flow of energy from peers with surplus to
>>> peers
>>> with deficit if everyone had a surplus. This is the basic and universal
>>> issue (or two issues,) IMO. For each given type of product (e.g. energy,
>>> milk, cars, etc) we can't have everyone be a producer because the "flow
>>> of
>>> energy" is the "economy of life" and without a deficit on one side and a
>>> surplus on the other there is no flow (or movement) of energy (and no
>>> flow
>>> of energy equal no life, literally.)
>>>
>>> So in order to have both the maximum surplus of the thing being produced
>>> and the maximum flow of that thing from the surplus side to the deficit
>>> side, the production tends towards centralization (within each geographic
>>> or
>>> virtual market)"
>>>
>>> Issue 2:
>>>
>>> The very act of paying someone (for a non-scarce resource) and expecting
>>> some service back creates a master-slave (or more mildly a
>>> 'customer-server'
>>> relationship) relationship... and this is a type of hierarchy basically.
>>> I'm
>>> having an issue with the idea of a hierarchy even though it's established
>>> in
>>> nature and even if we use the kind of renewable hierarchies that I
>>> describe
>>> (in passing) in the P2P Energy Economy. I'm studying two game theoretical
>>> models, the Prisoners Dilemma game and the Snowdrift (or Hawk-Dove) game
>>> in
>>> the context of hierarchies, latices with limited set of
>>> neighbor-to-neighbor
>>> interactions per element and networks with random interactions. I haven't
>>> had enough time with all that has been happening to produce any insight
>>> as
>>> far as the best type of system from a moral and evolutionary perspective
>>> but
>>> I know the P2P Energy Economy sections concerned with organization are
>>> lacking.
>>>
>>> If you have anything to share on your end, as far as your work goes,
>>> please feel free to do so.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Marc Fawzi
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>>
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>>
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>
>
> --
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>
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>
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-- 

Marc Fawzi
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