[p2p-research] Fwd: online coverage of thai political crisis

Fri Apr 17 12:07:19 CEST 2009

it's definitely an oligarchy, with about 100 families I was told, but how
the particular electoral system works, I don't know

the parliamentarians are quite diverse, too diverse according to the PAD who
want the limit the number of elected reps to 30% of parliament, with the
rest being nominated

see http://www.engagemedia.org/Members/lmnop/news/thailand-dispatch

Michel

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Michel,
>
> Isn't Thailand more of an oligarchy in that relatively few families have
> the prospect of achieving high office?  I may be wrong, but I was always of
> the understanding that it was a system closed to large scale participation.
> People essentially can vote in the all-star game ballot, but they may not
> choose who goes on that ballot nor nominate themselves.
>
> Is that unfair?  If this was already covered in the conversation, pls
> ignore.
>
> Ryan Lanham
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 3:28 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> very interesting Andy,
>>
>> I'll agree to disagree on the singapore/zimbabwe contrast ...
>>
>> one more thing about our thailand discussion, which may have been two way
>> and private?, anyway, about the nature of the PAD: whatever it's social
>> critique may have been at the beginning, it's record is clear: 1)
>> fomenting/causing the military coup against a democratically elected
>> government  2) fomenting/causing a 2nd legal coup against idem; 3) proposing
>> to limit the electoral force of the mass of the voters 4) pushing for
>> harsher application of the Lese Majeste laws which have become the most
>> potent threat against free speech in thailand, a mere whisper of a threat of
>> accusation being enough to discredit any politician ... In my opinion, it is
>> the PAD which destroyed democracy and free speech in the country, or at very
>> least, they have been instrumentalized to achieve that aim.
>>
>> Michel
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Andy Robinson <ldxar1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That's my impression too, that Singapore was a particularly rich little
>>> bit of the Malayan colony which went its own way at independence, with the
>>> result that it had a distinct advantage and didn't have to redistribute to
>>> the poorer parts - similar to if Santa Cruz actually managed to break from
>>> Bolivia like they keep trying to.  So it relates to Malaysia or Thailand a
>>> bit the way Monaco relates to Italy or Portugal for instance.  Being a
>>> financial centre gives big advantages, in Singapore this was reinforced by
>>> the outsourcing of multinational manufacturing.  I'd guess that economic
>>> wealth and a small population without a rural hinterland would make buying
>>> off the poorer sections off society rather easier than for more typical
>>> nation-states.
>>>
>>> I suggested Mugabe as a comparison to Thaksin because of his rural
>>> support-base linked to land reform and redistribution.  That's also what I
>>> meant mainly by redeeming features - the regime has mobilised certain
>>> popular demands, and done so in a way which actively mobilises its support
>>> base - even standing up to the IMF.  On the other hand it's viciously
>>> repressive of public opposition and has carried out some sweeping crackdowns
>>> and historically, massacres.  I'd guess however that everyday life is less
>>> regulated than in Singapore (it has some of the same laws but less ability
>>> to enforce them), that aside from the crackdowns (which are exceptions) the
>>> regime has limited impact in everyday life, and that people who aren't
>>> critics of the government are as free ideas-wise at least (Bakunin is in the
>>> University of Zimbabwe library).  I also see a lot of public dissent and
>>> rebellion there.  But then, there's the really horrible periodic crackdowns,
>>> and the violent suppression of any kind of public protest.  So Singapore vs
>>> Zimbabwe are two different kinds of evil really, hard to compare.  The
>>> suppression of any and all public protests also seems to happen in Singapore
>>> and Malaysia, but not necessarily in Thailand (or Korea, Cambodia,
>>> Indonesia, Taiwan, Pakistan, etc).  Sharif came to mind because he was
>>> extremely popular in certain quarters (still has a huge support-base and
>>> might win an election if they let him stand), but corrupt, repressive, with
>>> neoliberal tendencies, and ultimately kicked out in a coup for upsetting the
>>> elite.  The social composition might be quite different though, with the
>>> especially extreme social power of the army in Pakistan.
>>>
>>> The Chavez phenomenon seems to me genuinely emancipatory in many ways,
>>> not just the usual authoritarian nonsense - there has been a real increase
>>> in self-organisation encouraged by the government.  Admittedly this is
>>> almost unique (a couple of local imitators aside), but there are a lot of
>>> regimes where there's more "people power" than either Singapore or
>>> Zimbabwe.  India for instance seems to have gone further than most in South
>>> and Southeast Asia in avoiding duplicating colonial authoritarianism as well
>>> - there's active social movements, some degree of social tolerance, a lot of
>>> informal "encroaching", effective multi-party systems which have to deliver
>>> to their constituencies, protests are usually permitted and very common -
>>> though there's all the usual problems recurring in kernels here and there,
>>> local bigwigs trying to silence dissent, police misbehaving, suspicious
>>> killings, developmentalist land-grabs and so on; and extreme persecution
>>> around the margins (Kashmir, the Northeast, and in some cases against
>>> Muslims and Maoist sympathisers) - but all of this stuff gets protested and
>>> opposed a lot.  There's periodically really big victories for dissent - the
>>> Tata Nano case and the Gujjar unrest last year for example.  Similarly Korea
>>> seems rather vibrant, the governments are always right-wing but the protest
>>> scene is reminiscent of Greece, numerous, very militant, easily aroused and
>>> generally a force to be reckoned with.  I'd view these as more attractive
>>> options in terms of empowerment.
>>>
>>> bw
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> p2presearch at listcultures.org
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
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>

-- 
Working at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhurakij_Pundit_University -
http://www.dpu.ac.th/dpuic/info/Research.html -
http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI

Volunteering at the P2P Foundation:
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