[p2p-research] [p2p energy economy] Fwd: Follow up

Fri Apr 17 06:54:16 CEST 2009

Ryan,

I find your contribution very interesting, because it touches the key
problem of the interoperability and exchangeability of multiple currencies
which may have little in common.

As it is under-discussed, I would really appreciate if you could address
this issue for our blog, by expanding a little on your contribution here,
with an extra context for lay people so they understand its importance?

Michel

On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Ryan Lanham <rlanham1963 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Marc:
>
> This may seem a bit governmental, but I'd argue the key to your system is
> the policy objective a given currency wishes to optimize--set through some
> collaborative governance mechanism or by a representative group (e.g. a
> chamber of commerce or a community foundation).
>
> Use arbitrage between currencies allow different "pots" of money to
> reallocate.  In a prison, cigarettes might be used to buy services, and cans
> of mackeral used to buy goods, but you can have a market between mack and
> cigs.
>
> In other words, think of a rainbow of color currencies.  Orange is for
> this, blue is for that.  If you want blue to optimize efficient production
> of non-carbon energy, price it in energy units accordingly.  Let market
> mechanisms reallocate with possible REGULATORY governance actions that can
> intervene to change supply/demand in arbitrage options.
>
> There is a tendency for people to dislike markets because of some of their
> failings.  That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  The key to a
> polyarchic currency system, I believe, is to allow rapid creation of policy
> objectives (new colors) combined with rapid introduction of market-based
> arbitrage between colors.  Use limited numbers of price-settings in auctions
> to reduce speculative games.  In other words, the rate set between orange
> and blue may only be set twice a day, etc.
>
> Who sets?  The high bidder, up to some limit...then the next highest
> bidder, and so forth.
>
> The key is allowance of persistent coupon systems matching policy aims
> (like a bond market really, but more liquid and fungible).  In current
> worlds, that aim (the policy objective of a currency) is the growth of a
> given currency economy or allowance of government actions that can use
> currency devaluation to achieve some governmental policy objective (e.g.
> short term consumption against long-term pain.)
>
> Ryan Lanham
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 11:24 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just sharing some notes on the current problems in the P2P Energy Economy
>> model
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com>
>> Date: Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 9:23 PM
>> Subject: Follow up
>> To: James Edwards <bluecollargreenie at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi James,
>>
>> I'm sorry to have dropped the ball on our discussion re: energy flow based
>> currency...
>>
>> I went to Arizona where we had no Internet and learned all about solar
>> power
>>
>> Then I became homeless for a while, lost my girlfriend, etc
>>
>> And now I'm back to work thanks to a sudden and unexpected turn of events
>>
>> The problems with the P2P Energy Economy as of v3.00.00 boil down to this:
>>
>> Issue 1:
>>
>> "it's hard to see how individual energy producers would have any
>> substantial surplus if they had tiny solar generators and it's even harder
>> to see how there could be a flow of energy from peers with surplus to peers
>> with deficit if everyone had a surplus. This is the basic and universal
>> issue (or two issues,) IMO. For each given type of product (e.g. energy,
>> milk, cars, etc) we can't have everyone be a producer because the "flow of
>> energy" is the "economy of life" and without a deficit on one side and a
>> surplus on the other there is no flow (or movement) of energy (and no flow
>> of energy equal no life, literally.)
>>
>> So in order to have both the maximum surplus of the thing being produced
>> and the maximum flow of that thing from the surplus side to the deficit
>> side, the production tends towards centralization (within each geographic or
>> virtual market)"
>>
>> Issue 2:
>>
>> The very act of paying someone (for a non-scarce resource) and expecting
>> some service back creates a master-slave (or more mildly a 'customer-server'
>> relationship) relationship... and this is a type of hierarchy basically. I'm
>> having an issue with the idea of a hierarchy even though it's established in
>> nature and even if we use the kind of renewable hierarchies that I describe
>> (in passing) in the P2P Energy Economy. I'm studying two game theoretical
>> models, the Prisoners Dilemma game and the Snowdrift (or Hawk-Dove) game in
>> the context of hierarchies, latices with limited set of neighbor-to-neighbor
>> interactions per element and networks with random interactions. I haven't
>> had enough time with all that has been happening to produce any insight as
>> far as the best type of system from a moral and evolutionary perspective but
>> I know the P2P Energy Economy sections concerned with organization are
>> lacking.
>>
>> If you have anything to share on your end, as far as your work goes,
>> please feel free to do so.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Marc Fawzi
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Marc-Fawzi/605919256
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/marcfawzi
>>
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>>
>
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