[p2p-research] (almost) Gone to Croatan

Wed Sep 24 06:52:32 CEST 2008

I completely agree, but can't members agree on some broad commons objectives
first (e.g. only projects that members agree help to create viable p2p
infrastructures) but then freely choose how to allocate their funds within
that?

Of my 1%+ of income I contribute all of it goes on projects that have been
highly rated and agreed by members via an agreed process, but I'd like to be
able to choose to invest 40% in Open Source Ecology, 40% in the Ecological
Land Co-op, 10% to WorldFilmCollective and 10% to wiki and blog maintainers.

You might choose the same projects (or not) but with a different mix of
percentages.

Saying that, I'd be well up for insisting that a certain large percentage
can only be spend on land, but that might just be me :)

What do others think? Does what I outline above make sense? It is too
complicated?

Josef.

2008/9/24 Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>

> I think it what is required is a balance between individual and collective,
> otherwise it is  just one more market ...
>
> In the system I imagine, people who are not part of the collective can
> still donate freely to individual projects ..., but the people in the
> community accept some constraints because of the common objective of
> creating viable p2p infrastructures ...
>
> Michel
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Josef Davies-Coates <
> josef at uniteddiversity.com> wrote:
>
>> In my "dream" system individuals members decide for themselves where their
>> money goes, including what percentage of what they put in the pot goes
>> where.
>>
>>
>> 2008/9/24 Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
>>
>> Sam,
>>>
>>> if you recall, my proposal was roughly:
>>>
>>> - 40% in the revolving pool
>>>
>>> - 40% to the most voted upon proposals
>>>
>>> - 15% long term investment
>>>
>>> - 5% for the people working on the software and management of the pool
>>> itself
>>>
>>> Michel
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:48 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> So far, for decision making, I have employed Advanced Polling module,
>>>> with the http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Consensus_Polling method. It
>>>> works well, for sure. Consensus Polling is flexible enough to work in many
>>>> different collective decision making scenarios.
>>>>
>>>> I will set up a new version of this, which also had e-commerce tools
>>>> working for the money pooling aspect (I will probably hold off on re-setting
>>>> up money collection just yet, as so much has changed about Drupal's
>>>> ecommerce tools that I'll need to make some changes before redeploying that)
>>>>
>>>> But, we could experiment for a week or two with fake currency, because
>>>> the important part is the decision making process, and getting that right as
>>>> Joseph mentioned
>>>>
>>>> The resource pool that I was setting up, per Michel's idea, was to have
>>>> a decision making space for collectively donating a percentage of the money
>>>> collected, and a decision making space for collectively *investing* towards
>>>> a for-profit return (investing club) part of it. Michel also wanted to give
>>>> part of it to each member in turn on a rotating basis. I can't recall the
>>>> percentages he came up with. What do you think about that idea?
>>>>
>>>> Or, we could just go with the first 2 (donate and invest). How can this
>>>> work with consensus pooling? A proposal is posted that is also a consensus
>>>> poll. The poll is timed, and the person who starts the poll is tasked with
>>>> helping to work the "not yet" votes into the dynamic plan. Once enough votes
>>>> are switched to "yes" (maybe 80%) it becomes a "static contract", and the
>>>> proposal is funded (whether as donation or investment).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Josef Davies-Coates <
>>>> josef at uniteddiversity.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Very quick response:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for positive responses :-D
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I think the main thing will a decision making platform of sorts so
>>>>> that people can nicely decide (together, but with their own personal
>>>>> preferences) when money should go.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there somewhere I can have a play with the drupal stuff you've got
>>>>> already?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Josef.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/9/23 Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> A quick reply to one part:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joseph, I will follow your lead, too. Maybe you can talk about
>>>>>> details, as I have fallen behind on keeping track of your progress. Do you
>>>>>> need software, help, what do you need to get collaboration around resource
>>>>>> pooling going online? I have some workable code done in Drupal that could be
>>>>>> used if needed...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 7:16 AM, Michel Bauwens <
>>>>>> michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Sam, Paul, Josef,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks for  thinking this through and for your proposals ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) I'm definitely interested in money/resource pooling, but would
>>>>>>> rather follow a lead in this. If Josef takes the lead, we can support him in
>>>>>>> the ways he requires ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) merging of movements ... Again, I'm interested and have put
>>>>>>> forward some proposals in that sense. But you have to take into account both
>>>>>>> ego and branding, and 'visions'. Ego: people are invested in their projects;
>>>>>>> Brand: online brands, even if they at presently fail to generate much
>>>>>>> return, have value as well. What I'm saying is that I would be really
>>>>>>> reluctant to give up the 'brand' of p2p foundation. Visions: p2pfoundation
>>>>>>> and cooperation commons are related, but also different, their purpose is
>>>>>>> not the same.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, how would you create a higher entity, especially if you do not
>>>>>>> have any financial means to begin with. What would the purpose be of such a
>>>>>>> higher entity. Research (coop comm), political change (p2p found) ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm interested in creating a explicitely political movement,
>>>>>>> dedicated to bringing about a p2p society. Such an entity could then have a
>>>>>>> research wing (coop comm and p2p found wiki), a political wing, a funding
>>>>>>> entity, etc...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you simply want to intermesh research, I think the solution is
>>>>>>> technical, i.e. the ability to easily cross-reference ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One more thing, as an individual, I'm most interested in continuing
>>>>>>> to act as a librarian, and as a political theorist; any proposal which
>>>>>>> allows me to do this in a broader entity, with more means, I'm game.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Josef: do you remember our prior discussion about merging UD and p2p
>>>>>>> ... what about it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Josef Davies-Coates
>>>>> 07974 88 88 95
>>>>> http://uniteddiversity.com
>>>>> Together We Have Everything
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sam Rose
>>>> Social Synergy
>>>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>>>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>>>> AIM: Str9960
>>>> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
>>>> skype: samuelrose
>>>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>>>> http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
>>>> OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
>>>> http://p2pfoundation.net
>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>> http://www.cooperationcommons.com
>>>> http://barcampbank.org
>>>> http://communitywiki.org
>>>> http://openfarmtech.org
>>>> Information Filtering:
>>>> http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
>>>> http://del.icio.us/srose
>>>> http://twitter.com/SamRose
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
>>> alternatives.
>>>
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>>>
>>> Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
>>> http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
>>> BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Josef Davies-Coates
>> 07974 88 88 95
>> http://uniteddiversity.com
>> Together We Have Everything
>>
>
>
>
> --
> The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
> alternatives.
>
> Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
> http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p
>
> Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
> http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
> BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
> http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU
>
> KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>
> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> http://www.shiftn.com/
>

-- 
Josef Davies-Coates
07974 88 88 95
http://uniteddiversity.com
Together We Have Everything
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