[p2p-research] Capital Club
Samuel Rose
samuel.rose at gmail.com
Fri Mar 7 00:56:09 CET 2008
USA/EST, also see you use Skype and Gizmo, so I can find you on either of
those...
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Vinay Gupta <hexayurt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, let's try and do that some time. What's your timezone?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Vinay Gupta - Designer, Hexayurt Project - an excellent public domain
> refugee shelter system
> Gizmo Project VOIP: 775-743-1851 (usually works!) Cell:
> Iceland (+354) 869-4605
> http://hexayurt.com/ Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk: hexayurt hey
> i found squirrels
>
>
> On Mar 7, 2008, at 12:14 AM, Samuel Rose wrote:
>
> Vinay, replies below
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Vinay Gupta <hexayurt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm a Libertarian, albeit one who believes that there should be no such
> > thing as a Limited Liability Company - it's not the government's business to
> > form companies, any more than it's the government's business to marry
> > people.
> >
>
> But there can be contracts between people. A promise.
>
>
> >
> > I believe that Libertarianism is not ready for prime time until the
> > environmental protection issues are sorted out, but *nobody* has the right
> > to tell me what to do and use force to compel me to obey, not the State, and
> > nobody else.
> >
>
> The problem we would need to solve would be, how to stop everyone from
> killing each other? Everyone would have to *voluntarily agree* to co-manage
> resources as a commons!!!! Hwo can we get them to do this? Some will
> realize the consequences: destruction of the earth. Some will not. Those who
> realize consequences are compelled to work to convince (not through force)
> to get those who do not or cannot realize, to voluntarily adopt new ways of
> solving problems. So, those new ways *have* to be better at the existing
> ways in solving problems these non-realizers care about! :-)
>
>
> >
> > You see why I'm taking this slowly and asking lots of questions. This is
> > a very different perspective :)
> >
> > Vinay
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Vinay Gupta - Designer, Hexayurt Project - an excellent public domain
> > refugee shelter system
> > Gizmo Project VOIP: 775-743-1851 (usually works!) Cell:
> > Iceland (+354) 869-4605
> > http://hexayurt.com/ Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk: hexayurt
> > hey i found squirrels
> >
> >
> > On Mar 7, 2008, at 12:03 AM, Samuel Rose wrote:
> >
> > PS.
> >
> > This is why I think Lovins's work, Natural Capitalism, is valuable.
> >
> > Because it works towards creating a choice that people operating from
> > many different world views could be likely to take.
> >
> > We are all stuck in a system that is focused on 'profit', and we will
> > beyond the shadow of a doubt be stuck with people who are focused on
> > 'profit' at least for the rest of all of our lives.
> >
> > So, what can we do to make appropriate technologies very profitable,
> > while still being copylefted and open-sourced? We cannot compete within the
> > same market systems, because those market systems work around
> > lowest-cost-only. People are focused by marketing into concentrating on
> > lowest cost. But for hexayurt, we could help you compete, not because you
> > have the lowest price, but because you have connection to the communities of
> > people who use your product. Or, you find and connect with those people. You
> > can then add huge amounts of value simply by listening to those people, and
> > what they want, and figuring out ways to give it to them, maybe in
> > collaboration with us (open source ecology)? What could people do with
> > hexayurt, and you, and us, that could actually help them build wealth?
> > Instead of getting lowest cost from people who copied your design in China,
> > and built it with peopel making slave wages, maybe you offer:
> >
> >
> > - a slightly higher cost, but considerably more equitable
> > production
> > - ability work closely with other related solution providers to
> > bring not just shelter, but other needed disaster relief
> > - support for sustainable food production, industry production,
> > energy production add ons to hexayurt
> >
> > I don't really know your market, so these are just stabs in the dark.
> > But, if I had time to talk to the actual people who would use your
> > solutions, and everyone in the chain, I could find these opportunties, I
> > think. This is stuff that Douglas Rushkoff talks about in "Get back in the
> > box" but I think it applies well to open design technologies
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > In a nutshell: A way for people to solve their perceived problems of
> > > existence, that gives them more direct control and power over themselves,
> > > that gives real alternatives to existing government and mega corporation
> > > infrastructure. A way that allows people to freely pursue their own chosen
> > > ways of life, but finds them choosing to solve problems in ways that are not
> > > destructive to others, *because* these are the best, most efficient, and
> > > even eventually easiest way to solve their perceived problems of existence.
> > >
> > > This is definitely what I believe myself, Marcin, Patrick, and others
> > > are creating, right now.
> > >
> > >
> > > There is no one answer, no one system, and there is no guarantee,
> > > because we exist, right now, in a complex adaptive system. We cannot control
> > > it. We can only learn to adapt the way that it adapts.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Vinay Gupta <hexayurt at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I'm asking what you what direction these changes are in. If
> > > > you succeeded, what would you create?
> > > > Vinay
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Vinay Gupta - Designer, Hexayurt Project - an excellent public
> > > > domain refugee shelter system
> > > > Gizmo Project VOIP: 775-743-1851 (usually works!) Cell:
> > > > Iceland (+354) 869-4605
> > > > http://hexayurt.com/ Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk: hexayurt Two's
> > > > company. Three's Musketeers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mar 6, 2008, at 11:38 PM, Samuel Rose wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Actually, I am working with others in *practice* to change this
> > > > society, guiding vision in part to co-create with others new models that
> > > > obsolete existing models...
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Vinay Gupta <hexayurt at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > and how do you envisage changing this society?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Vinay Gupta - Designer, Hexayurt Project - an excellent public
> > > > > domain refugee shelter system
> > > > > Gizmo Project VOIP: 775-743-1851 (usually works!)
> > > > > http://hexayurt.com/
> > > > > Cell: Iceland (+354) 869-4605
> > > > > Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk: hexayurt
> > > > > People with courage and character always seem sinister to the
> > > > > rest Herman Hesse
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mar 6, 2008, at 11:30 PM, Samuel Rose wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > If you were replying to me, I have this actual society in mind,
> > > > > that we are in right now...
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 5:18 PM, Vinay Gupta <hexayurt at gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Free people will create a free market. A free market will not
> > > > > > create
> > > > > > free people.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I rather like profit, when I make it. I like other things more,
> > > > > > at
> > > > > > times, but I'm not sure what kind of a reform of society you
> > > > > > have in
> > > > > > mind...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vinay
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Vinay Gupta - Designer, Hexayurt Project - an excellent public
> > > > > > domain
> > > > > > refugee shelter system
> > > > > > Gizmo Project VOIP: 775-743-1851 (usually works!)
> > > > > > Cell:
> > > > > > Iceland (+354) 869-4605
> > > > > > http://hexayurt.com/ Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk:
> > > > > > hexayurt hey i found squirrels
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mar 6, 2008, at 9:57 PM, Patrick Anderson wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Vinay,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I hope not to sound negative for no reason.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have a specific problem with NatCap that is all too common:
> > > > > > The idea
> > > > > > > of 'profit' (keeping price above cost) is seen as a *goal*
> > > > > > instead of
> > > > > > > a central *problem*.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For instance, from http://www.natcap.org/sitepages/pid5.php we
> > > > > > read:
> > > > > > > "Natural Capitalism describes a future in which business and
> > > > > > > environmental interests increasingly overlap, and in which
> > > > > > businesses
> > > > > > > can better satisfy their customers' needs, increase profits,
> > > > > > and help
> > > > > > > solve environmental problems all at the same time."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As long as profit is considered a goal in itself, the troubles
> > > > > > I am
> > > > > > > trying to describe will persist.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To reiterate, why do you buy your car instead of renting? If
> > > > > > profit
> > > > > > > is important, wouldn't you want to pay it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your peer,
> > > > > > > Patrick
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Vinay Gupta <
> > > > > > hexayurt at gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> What do y'all think of Natural Capitalism from Lovins et.
> > > > > > al.?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Vinay
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Sam Rose
> > > > > Social Synergy
> > > > > Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> > > > > Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> > > > > AIM: Str9960
> > > > > Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> > > > > skype: samuelrose
> > > > > email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> > > > > http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> > > > > http://socialsynergy.typepad.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> > > > > OpenBusinessModels:
> > > > > http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
> > > > > http://p2pfoundation.net
> > > > > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> > > > > http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> > > > > http://barcampbank.org
> > > > > http://communitywiki.org
> > > > > http://openfarmtech.org
> > > > > Information Filtering:
> > > > > http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
> > > > > http://del.icio.us/srose
> > > > > http://twitter.com/SamRose
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sam Rose
> > > > Social Synergy
> > > > Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> > > > Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> > > > AIM: Str9960
> > > > Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> > > > skype: samuelrose
> > > > email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> > > > http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> > > > http://socialsynergy.typepad.com
> > > >
> > > > Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> > > > OpenBusinessModels:
> > > > http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
> > > > http://p2pfoundation.net
> > > > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> > > > http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> > > > http://barcampbank.org
> > > > http://communitywiki.org
> > > > http://openfarmtech.org
> > > > Information Filtering:
> > > > http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
> > > > http://del.icio.us/srose
> > > > http://twitter.com/SamRose
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sam Rose
> > > Social Synergy
> > > Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> > > Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> > > AIM: Str9960
> > > Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> > > skype: samuelrose
> > > email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> > > http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> > > http://socialsynergy.typepad.com
> > >
> > > Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> > > OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
> > > http://p2pfoundation.net
> > > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> > > http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> > > http://barcampbank.org
> > > http://communitywiki.org
> > > http://openfarmtech.org
> > > Information Filtering:
> > > http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
> > > http://del.icio.us/srose
> > > http://twitter.com/SamRose
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sam Rose
> > Social Synergy
> > Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> > Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> > AIM: Str9960
> > Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> > skype: samuelrose
> > email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> > http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> > http://socialsynergy.typepad.com
> >
> > Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> > OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
> > http://p2pfoundation.net
> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> > http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> > http://barcampbank.org
> > http://communitywiki.org
> > http://openfarmtech.org
> > Information Filtering:
> > http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
> > http://del.icio.us/srose
> > http://twitter.com/SamRose
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Sam Rose
> Social Synergy
> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> AIM: Str9960
> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> skype: samuelrose
> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> http://socialsynergy.typepad.com
>
> Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
> http://p2pfoundation.net
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> http://barcampbank.org
> http://communitywiki.org
> http://openfarmtech.org
> Information Filtering:
> http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
> http://del.icio.us/srose
> http://twitter.com/SamRose
>
>
>
--
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
AIM: Str9960
Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
http://socialsynergy.typepad.com
Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
http://p2pfoundation.net
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
http://www.cooperationcommons.com
http://barcampbank.org
http://communitywiki.org
http://openfarmtech.org
Information Filtering:
http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
http://del.icio.us/srose
http://twitter.com/SamRose
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