[p2p-research] the end of theory-driven science?

Mon Jun 30 06:08:11 CEST 2008

Hi Sam,

I think this comment is already excellent. Could you post it to the blog
with reference to Kelly's original comment and perhaps an added link too
http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Science at the bottom?

I think the title: Using Swarm Computing as an Open Social Utility, would be
excellent.

For my own benefit: why is BOINC important?

Michel

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 12:20 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's worth mentioning that their is no science without theory. The human
> mind is wired for creating theories. That is why there is a neural network
> built into our brain/mind system. It was self-built to consider the
> un-manifested.
>
> That being said, what Kevin Kelly describes is a lot like Stephen Wolfram's
> "A New Kind of Science". Not exactly the same, but closely related.
>
> In both cases: a *search* based science. Not that science didn't already
> have "search". But now you can start to create billions of possible
> combinations of simulations and then search through them. So it is
> simulation/search based.
>
> This is what I was propsing in our discussion about circuit design:
> Evolutionary/simulation/search-based research
>
> You can compress thousands, or even millions of years or human trial and
> error into this type of research. Plus, you walk away with billions of
> potential variations on your design, and ready ways and building blocks to
> adapt and change your design, and data about how different variations work
> under different conditions. You have a design DNA.
>
> Right now, I use databases like google as a kind of bionic brain extension.
> So, I say bring on the new databases, the computer clusters, the algorithms.
> As long as we all have equal access to them.
>
> The question for me is: what comes after search? When knowledge bases reach
> the exabyte level, or higher, and there are algorithms searching/crunching
> through them and finding patterns, relationships, testing all of the
> possible combinations, etc, how do handle and process what the machines are
> outputting?  How do we avoid becoming a cybernetic society?
>
> An even more fundamental question is: what can you create with all of this
> data, and/or with the systems that are used to collect and analyze it? How
> can it be used as a medium for expression? What are the new ways to "see"
> and "feel" the data?  How can the data systems be grounded as an ecology
> that is self-balancing, so that it doesn't overrun our existence like a form
> of digital toxic pollution, and cause ill effects on living systems, like
> people being ruled by algorithmic output that is too much in one direction?
>
>
> Another consideration: When we see that entities like google are the only
> ones that can wield and harness resources like those that process and hold
> petabyte databases, then we still have the potential for a power imbalance,
> where those who can hold and process the most data are the "wealthiest" in
> terms of capability, adaptability, access to knowledge.
>
> I wonder how many people realize that existing technology possesses the
> building blocks to allow p2p networks to exceed the capability of any one
> entity like Google, etc?
>
> I can see the possibilty of something simple, and elegant on a basic scale,
> that can scale-up easily, that provides a social utility for anyone who
> accesses it, using the combined resources of millions, or possibly even of
> people for storage and processing, that cannot be controlled for any
> specific exclusive purpose by any one person, and that could be controlled
> democratically by people opting out of participation should they not like
> the direction things are going in. We could have this today, and some people
> have already done it on a limited basis with things like SETI at Home, etc.
> What we need is more evolution in this area, more ways to use swarm
> super-computers, ways that are accessible by many people. A way to turn
> swarm super computers into an open social utility. This would is not out of
> our reach right now. We don't have to wait until networks are totally
> decentralized to build this into our social systems. We all have computers
> and operating systems, free cpu cycles, internet connections with extra
> bandwidth, and likely ideas about what we could do with those resources.
> There are already clients like http://boinc.berkeley.edu/, and systems
> like http://ceph.newdream.net/ or even http://www.bittorrent.com/ as
> building block upon which to improve. http://www.bittorrent.com/ could
> even work if enough people participated.
>
> The point is, a p2p social computing/data utility could exist today even
> with just BOINC and bittorrent. I am now in discussion with communities,
> like http://socialsynergyweb.org/oardc/startpage about how they could
> apply evolutionary computing, simulation, datamining, and other modelling
> and search to local food systems. (see
> http://socialsynergyweb.org/oardc/local-food-systems-computer-modeling-gis-datamining-group
> )
>
> A BOINC/bittorrent system could be used with applictions like
> http://www.urbansim.org/, http://code.google.com/p/optimaes/  and
> countless other open source simulation systems, not to mention datamining,
> GIS analysis, etc This can give local communities access to pwoerful
> research and development facilities. It could also be used to render and
> crunch numbers on design/ FEA (finite element analysis) etc.
>
> The question is, why isn't this already happening? Probably primarily
> because we get a minimum of what we need from free/ad-based systems like
> Google. But we could have a lot more, even right now. There is a huge amount
> of inherent wealth and untapped commons available right now.
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 7:17 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/06/the_google_way.php
>>
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>
>
> --
> Sam Rose
> Social Synergy
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-- 
The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
alternatives.

Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p

Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU

KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/
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