[p2p-research] fyi: interview in Rome, on p2p learning (clip 2-12) and the transition to a p2p society (clip 1)

Sun Jul 20 06:20:23 CEST 2008

Dear Kris,

Thanks for your comments.

The reason integration is not mentioned, is that I did not think of it in
this context<g>, because as you know, I have a very similar integrative
approach. And of course, I'm equally well aware of the problems of
non-participation. A cursory walk in the wiki will show that I cover these
topics extensively.

I think that talking about the problems, which is fine in a group such as
these, is not always indicated for a general audience. I compare it to the
approach to sustainability: problem-oriented ecological education has been
proven to lead to cynicism and inaction, while approaches based on 'care',
lead to aware and active individuals. So I think that emphasizing the
problematic parts of p2p depends on the context of the audience.

As you say, p2p is an ideal, but I would like to be more precise on that: 1)
for about 2% of the population, it's not an ideal, but a practice; 2) for
about 25% of the population it's an ideal; 3) for the rest, it can function
as a constitutional reality, embedded in protocols, which drives the average
practive upwards (figures from the research of susan-cook greuter,
http://www.slideshare.net/evansridge/integral-institute-community-presentation
)

So the solution is that the 2% should go ahead, inspire the others, and
embed as much as we can in the social protocols and norms,

p2p practice is emerging, it is growing as an ideal, and it is in the
process of being embedded in social protocols, we <are> making progress,
despite the difficulties you are indicating

You will find my take on integration here,
http://integral-review.org/documents/Integral%20Review%20and%20Its%20Editors%201,%202005.pdf,
starting page 14 and entitled 'Beyond perspectives, reductionisms, and
layers'

(By the way, can anyone help converting this in Word or doc, so that I could
republish it seperately?)

For our friends here, your take on integration is also located here at
http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Integration

Michel

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kris ROOSE <kroose at gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:25 PM
Subject: Fwd: [p2pf] fyi: interview in Rome, on p2p learning (clip 2-12) and
the transition to a p2p society (clip 1)

Dear Michel,

thanks for this very clear explanation from Rome, as impressive as your
presentation from Australia. You really *have* the talent of speech.

But again I feel a little bit frustrated by your non mentioning of two major
difficulties with p2p, synergy, etc., that very often are limiting its full
realisation. At least, as I perceive it.

(1) of course, Google and every p2p system can gather all bits of knowledge,
distributed allover the globe and the Web. But I think that many bits of
information, including yet undiscovered and creative possibilities,
insoluble conflicts, are still missing. However perfect the search, the
essential information is often not (yet) available. And here comes in what I
call *integration*, a technique of creative thinking. It is not something
one masters spontaneously, or that automatically starts as soon as
internet-like communication channels become available. It is a technique and
an intellectual discipline that, along my experience as therapist and coach,
require explicit training. And in all p2p discourses I read and hear, this
crucial aspect of communication is nearly never mentioned.

(2) A second major phenomenon, hitting many attempts to p2p and synergistic,
integrative functioning, is a kind of non-compliance, non-motivation,
not-feeling-responsible by the majority of the group. Even in wiki-sites,
blogs, where interaction has only a minimal treshold, people not often feel
enough motivation to interact, to react on the proposed texts, to propose
alternatives, to elaborate integrations, to share experiences. The real work
renmains to be done by a little group of idealists. This participatory
discipline is, in my experiemnce, the major reason why so many idealistic,
synergistic initiatives spontaneously fall back, after a lapse of time, to
more hierarchical organizations, or fade out.

I.m.h.o, these both problems should deserve our full attention before we can
really step upwards to the next stage of the realisation of our p2p ideal.

Regards, Kris

2008/7/19 Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>:

   See
> http://www.masternewmedia.org/news/2008/07/18/p2p_and_education_robin_good.htm
>
> --
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-- 
The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
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Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p

Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU

KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
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