[p2p-research] adds to the wiki

Tue Jan 8 18:32:00 CET 2008

Patrick,

I guess we are also thinking about how to put this into
"PlainTalk<http://www.communitywiki.org/en/PlainTalk>"
terms, too. This is something that I think I an help you with over time at
Open Business Models wiki hive, and we can then transfer the material to P2P
wiki, also, if you want...

On Jan 8, 2008 11:55 AM, Patrick Anderson <ownut at epfarms.org> wrote:

> Michel,
>
> Maybe you've already figured it out, but to keep things clear, I should
> point out that you should be responding to Sam Rose here, not Patrick
> Anderson.
>
> I agree Sam's Q&A list is a good idea.  I wrote one myself, but didn't ask
> the same questions of course.  You can read that version at
> http://EcoComics.org/faq.html for now.
>
> I'll clean this up, fill in the answers I think that I 'know' and make
> some guesses at the others then post to p2presearch.  I view this as a
> matter of uncovering what is already true, and (in my mind) has nothing to
> do with invention.
>
> Luck,
> Patrick
>
>
> > Hi Patrick,
> >
> > I think that a Q & A would be useful, but for example, as you cite
> below,
> > I
> > still think it is pretty unreadable, because you take a technical
> approach
> > from within your own self-referential structure, and I think that a
> whole
> > different way of communication is called for. If it is already to terse
> > for
> > me, I can only wonder what it sounds like for most other people ... I
> > would
> > also suggest that you put only the links as an endnote ... as camelcase
> by
> > itself is already difficult to read ...
> >
> > Michel
> >
> > On Jan 7, 2008 10:56 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> One of the things that i think could also help is to create a "Q&A",
> >> either with youself, or with someone else, that asks and answers
> >> questions
> >> in a conversational manner. Example:
> >>
> >>
> >> "Q: What is User ownership, exaclty?
> >> A: "UserOwner <http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/UserOwner>" is
> >> an
> >> OpenBusinessModel<
> http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/OpenBusinessModel>that
> >> treats profit as incremental
> >> UserInvestment
> >> <http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/UserInvestment>toward
> >> PhysicalSources
> >> <http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/PhysicalSources>so each
> >> consumer slowly gains real property ownership as ControllingShares
> >> ?<
> http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki?action=edit;id=ControllingShares
> >in
> >> that ForProduct
> >> <http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/ForProduct> business whenever
> >> they pay
> >> PriceAboveCost<http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/PriceAboveCost>
> >> .
> >>
> >> Q: Huh? "ForProduct? PriceAboveCost? What are those?
> >> A: A "For Product" business is one in which the primary goal is
> Product.
> >> A
> >> "For Product" business can scale through a legally binding
> >> SocialContract<http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?SocialContract>that
> >> requires profit be treated as
> >> UserInvestment
> >> <http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/UserInvestment>.
> >>
> >> PriceAboveCost
> >> <http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/PriceAboveCost>is another way
> >> of talking about Profit.
> >>
> >> In traditional Capitalism, an
> >> ObjectUser?<
> http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki?action=edit;id=ObjectUser>'s
> >> payment of Price Above Cost is collected by the SourceOwners
> >> ?<http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki?action=edit;id=SourceOwners
> >as
> >> OwnerProfit?<
> http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki?action=edit;id=OwnerProfit>.
> >> OwnerProfit?<
> http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki?action=edit;id=OwnerProfit
> >becomes
> >> the central goal, with the product often becoming incidental and
> >> eventually even a problem.
> >>
> >> But a consumer's payment of price above cost is actually his plea for
> >> growth. He is admitting he can't meet that objective any other way. He
> >> doesn't own the
> >> PhysicalSources<
> http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/PhysicalSources>needed
> >> for that production.
> >>
> >> Under a legally binding
> >> UserOwner<http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/UserOwner>
> >> SocialContract <http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?SocialContract>, a
> >> GNU
> >> Society will treat
> >> PriceAboveCost<http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/PriceAboveCost
> >as
> >> UserInvestment
> >> <http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/UserInvestment>because Price
> >> approaches Cost as
> >> (UserOwnership?<
> http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki?action=edit;id=UserOwnership>of
> >> PhysicalSources
> >> <http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/PhysicalSources>)
> >> approaches FullyDistributed
> >> ?<
> http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki?action=edit;id=FullyDistributed>
> >> .
> >>
> >>
> >> Q: Ok, so basically, when people by products from this type of
> business,
> >> if they become shareholders, owners of part of the company, by paying
> >> more
> >> for the product than the product cost to produce, right? Each time they
> >> pay
> >> "price above cost" that extra amount is applied towards a share in the
> >> company for that consumer/user/customer, right?
> >>
> >> A: Yes! Exactly!
> >>
> >> Q: So, what is the advantage to doing things this way?
> >>
> >> Q: Won't this be difficult to govern? can average people be trusted to
> >> to
> >> own the Physical sources of production?
> >>
> >> Q How will this affect our existing economies?
> >>
> >> Q: How does US, or other law currently apply to the User Owner
> >> arrangement?
> >>
> >> Stuff like that...
> >>
> >> It's proven that people learn and retain knowledge better through a
> >> conversational tone (plus visualization/images).
> >>
> >> I'd be happy to help you work on this, if you think it's useful.
> >>
> >> Also, for actually applying this model, I think there are quite a few
> >> existing opportunities I am connected with that would be good
> candidates
> >> to
> >> try
> >>
> >> On Jan 7, 2008 2:57 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi Patrick,
> >> >
> >> > thanks for adding your items to the wiki, which I think is a good
> >> thing
> >> > ...
> >> >
> >> > however, I'm concerned by the lack of context for readers, as your
> >> prose
> >> > is very terse, and self-referential, referring to a context most
> >> people will
> >> > be unfamiliar with.
> >> >
> >> > I therefore propose to things:
> >> >
> >> > 1) that you would have your own area under Projects (see bottom of
> >> right
> >> > column); that you would tag your items so they also appear
> >> automatically in
> >> > that category, and that you clearly indicate in your entries, some
> >> > indication of the context, for example: "as used in [[User
> Ownership]]
> >> > theory .. Readers have to know why there is no general description of
> >> the
> >> > term, but a definition within a specific context .
> >> >
> >> > What do you think? If you agree, what should you/we use as a
> >> specialized
> >> > tag? Perhaps: [[Category:Usertheory]] ??
> >> >
> >> > Michel
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
> >> > alternatives.
> >> >
> >> > Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
> >> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
> >> > http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p
> >> >
> >> > Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview
> >> at
> >> >
> http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
> >> > BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
> >> http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at
> >> > http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
> >> >
> >> > The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> >> > http://www.shiftn.com/
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > p2presearch mailing list
> >> > p2presearch at listcultures.org
> >> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sam Rose
> >> Social Synergy
> >> Tel:+1-+1(517) 639-1552
> >> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> >> AIM: Str9960
> >> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> >> skype: samuelrose
> >> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> >> http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> >> http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com
> >>
> >> Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> >> OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
> >> http://p2pfoundation.net
> >> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >> http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> >> http://barcampbank.org
> >> http://bfwatch.barcampbank.org
> >> http://communitywiki.org
> >> http://extinctionlevelevent.com
> >>
> >> Information Filtering:
> >> http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
> >> http://del.icio.us/srose
> >> http://twitter.com/SamRose
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
> > alternatives.
> >
> > Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
> > http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p
> >
> > Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
> > http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
> > BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
> > http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU
> >
> > KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at
> http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
> >
> > The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> > http://www.shiftn.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > p2presearch mailing list
> > p2presearch at listcultures.org
> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
> >
>
>
>

-- 
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Tel:+1-+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
AIM: Str9960
Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com

Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
http://p2pfoundation.net
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
http://www.cooperationcommons.com
http://barcampbank.org
http://bfwatch.barcampbank.org
http://communitywiki.org
http://extinctionlevelevent.com

Information Filtering:
http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
http://del.icio.us/srose
http://twitter.com/SamRose
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