[p2p-research] [P2P Foundation] From Citizendium To Eduzendium

[Samuel Rose]

Following this thread, I have to say I really like the idea of forking
Wikipedia. It needs a new social governance model that is based more on
http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?SoftSecurity and
http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?RadicalInclusiveness

"Notability" is a ridiculous requirement given the cheapness of space within
an average wiki, and given the presence of search, and information
architectures.

Deletion should be a *last resort* for quality assurance in a system where
content is expected to be produced by volunteers. The rule should instead be
figuring out how to accurately contextualize content, and incorporate the
different views, find references for claims, etc.

One of the problems with Wikipedia, vs. other successful wiki communities is
that wiki communities like Meatball wiki, etc are a group of maybe 12-25
regular contributors who work together to build trust and shared meaning.

Wikipedia is a group of 25 or so admins and enthusiasts who have come to see
themselves as pitted against the masses who throng into wikipedia every day.


Wikipedia would do better to invite contributors to join groups that are
focused on different areas of interest, and encourage people to get to know
one another, build dialogue/communication among people in these interest
groups. And, let these groups be held to soft security rules, in addition to
NPOV rules.

On Feb 4, 2008 8:08 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Henrik,
>
> I think your last paragraph makes the key point: a good governance process
> would allow to correct the mistake of the leadership, replace them
> eventually, etc...
>
> I think a lot more need to be said about the undemocratic nature of free
> sofrware projects
>
> Undemocratic does not necessarily mean anti-democratic ... As we have
> strong-willed and capable individuals voluntarily contributing, they must
> have a strong degree of autonomy in cooperation, undeterred by those
> undemocratic elements of the system, which are accepted as mechanisms of
> excellence selection.
>
> Could you elaborate on this,
>
> and when thus undemocratic change into anti-democratic abuse and
> exploitation, where is the line
>
> I'm also aware that many projects, apache, debian, use formal democratic
> procedures, even for technical matters (at least apache I think),
>
> Michel
>
> On Feb 5, 2008 1:44 AM, Henrik Ingo <henrik.ingo at avoinelama.fi> wrote:
>
> > Hi Michel, others
> >
> > After being out for a walk, I thought I should slightly adjust my
> > position :-)
> >
> > On Feb 4, 2008 12:11 PM, Henrik Ingo <henrik.ingo at avoinelama.fi> wrote:
> > > Sure, I completely agree that what is going on at wikipedia currently
> > > is crazy. I just wanted to point out that elsewhere we have thriving
> > > Open Source projects that are selective and undemocratic. So those
> > > notions in themselves cannot be at fault.
> >
> > Thinking about it for a day, I still hold that many Open Source
> > projects are undemocratic, however I think most that are successful
> > put effort into encouraging new developments, even forks. (For
> > instance, there are always multiple kernel trees, often 2 versions of
> > samba, etc, but they are not considered forks since they are
> > officially encouraged.) So yes, while there still exists a right to be
> > selective, good projects at least accommodate for alternative
> > solutions to co-exist, if not always including them.
> >
> > But still, I hold that the main failure of wikipedia is not
> > deletionism, that is more like a symptom. The core problem is the
> > governance process that allowed current leaders to become leaders.
> >
> > henrik
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > email: henrik.ingo at avoinelama.fi
> > tel:   +358-40-5697354
> > www:   www.avoinelama.fi/~hingo <http://www.avoinelama.fi/%7Ehingo>
> > book:  www.openlife.cc
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
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>
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Sam Rose
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