[p2p-research] peer governance and democracy, request to Ned: Digital Media Literacies

Mon Feb 4 21:29:35 CET 2008

Yes, I definitely respect your perspective, for sure. Although, it is so
totally the opposite of my own nature, which refuses *not* to understand the
technological processes. :) But, I think this is a matter of personal
"taste" in problem solving.

You probably have more room on your "mental table" for things that I may be
crowding out with my quests to understand technology. Yet, if my car breaks
down in the middle of nowhere, I can often do something about it :)

Anyway, I think that what I hope will happen is that people will obtain a
general literacy of the underlying principles and nature of the medium. Not
so much the fine grained technological details, but the basic pervasive
properties. Enough so that you would be empowered to be self sufficient
using tools of your choice because you understand what they do on a general
level.

In your case, I would venture to guess, based on discussions that we have
had over time, that by using the medium, and solving problems, you have
gained some of these literacies. This is one of the most effective ways for
people to gain these basic understandings, by using  tools, and employing
processes to solve problems they actually care about.

People still don't necessarily become technological experts, but they
understand the utility of something like wiki, for instance, by using it in
practical applications. Then, this becomes part of their social media
toolkit for solving problems. And, I think some of the basic programming
principles become available to more people as they are shifting into the
user interface. Things like Yahoo Pipes, which mimics the "pipes" of Unix
systems in certain ways. And, understanding data as objects, and hooking
data objects together, such as when you tag web pages in del.icio.us. Or,
when data is exportable and reusable as RSS feeds

And, on a deeper level, people start to learn about the more abstract
systemic concepts, and they can learn to understand possible outcomes of
certain approaches. I think the overall roughly 5% of knowledge about how
something works you describe is increasing a bit, just because of the nature
of the digital medium, which gives so many dimensions of possibilities to
the user.

I am basically theorizing that once "power" of certain types in media
ecologies is shifting from "administrators" to  "users", that  the system
would only sustain itself if the "users" understand the abstract dynamics of
what they are doing on different scales beyond themselves.

For instance, if they are collectively managing a resource as a "commons",
it probably only be a sustainable commons if most of the people involved
recognize the dynamics, and understand the "game" they are playing (tragedy
of the commons), and act accordingly. This is the type of "literacy" that is
lacking, and is needed IMO. Also, literacies of human nature, and literacies
of foresight, and media ecology, among others.

For instance, a media ecology example is that many people from a generation
previous to mine will approach the digital medium from the old print and
broadcast paradigms, and will tend to want to use the medium as a one-way
content delivery medium. They are struggling to understand the how's and
why's of multi-way communication and content creation. In part, because for
so long, controlling the message, and controlling flows of information, and
access to knowledge was the best route to succeeding commercially, which was
the only success that mattered to most people. Now, it is my belief that a
significant amount of people are starting to intuit that there are other
benchmarks for success beyond money. So, I think they can understand how
their actions and reactions, and ways of solving their problems of existence
can contribute towards those other benchmarks or motivations.

I think that the majority of people can come to gain these literacies, and I
think that the path towards this happening lies in part within
http://www.communitywiki.org/en/VisualLanguage  and
http://www.communitywiki.org/en/PlainTalk in helping people understand how
to make use of new mediums

(Also, I can confirm that it takes equally as long to install Windows XP as
it does to install most Linux Distributions. Neither of which should take an
hour on a computer who's vintage is within the last 4-5 years) And, I
recently installed Debian [which is what Ubuntu is based off of]on a
computer in about 20 minutes. Although, I did not install a lot of things I
didn't need either. Instead I install as I need. For an even quicker Ubuntu
install, that takes way less space on your computer try
http://www.xubuntu.org/  :-) )

On Feb 4, 2008 1:05 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sam,
>
> I just want to note and re-inforce what you are saying. Having a general
> literacy is one thing, requiring a specialized literacy is another.
>
> I want to be able to drive my car, but I refuse to be an expert in the
> technoligical processes that make it drive.
>
> I want to know just enough of social software tools to get my message
> across, not more, because my priority will always be towards reading and
> learning more, not towards technical proficiency.
>
> This is the result of the specialization in our societies, and the case
> for the overwhelming majority of world citizens, who only wish to learn
> maximum five percent of what a given tool offers, sufficient, 'good enough',
> for their needs, and this is what good designers should strive for.
>
> This is why Linux is largely confined to infrastructure used by technical
> users, not on the desktop, though maybe ubuntu will change that ...
>
> I may be wrong on this, but last I heard, it still took 2 hours to install
> Ubuntu or a Linux desktop system ... still not for me,
>
> Michel
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2008 9:26 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey, y'all, I still need to read Ned's book...
> >
> > On Feb 2, 2008 11:35 PM, Ned Rossiter <ned at nedrossiter.org> wrote:
> >
> > > hi Michel, thanks for this.
> > >
> > > As I note in my response to Daren's review, another challenge for
> > > network governance is scale. And for massive projects/platforms like
> > > wikipedia et al (and, let's face it, much of what the net tends to
> > > do), there are always going to be those dysfunctional dimensions that
> > > you refer to vis-a-vis platform owners vs. users.  I don't think
> > > those tensions can ever be 'solved'.  But users can harass owners.
> > > This worked to an extent with ICANN, facebook, etc.  What the history
> > > of the net has shown again and again is that when enough users get
> > > fed up they move on.  And that's where of course developers/
> > > programmers are so important.
> >
> >
> > A related note: One of the interesting developments of the digital
> > medium is that as social, information, and knowledge software evolves, it is
> > increasingly shifting more and more of the power over functionality,
> > location of and access to data, control over interface function and design,
> > and info architecture elements over to the end user, or to
> > non-programming-literate users.
> >
> > Although, by the same token, people who do not have a basic literacy in
> > programming principles still often do not understand how to use and access
> > these tools, even when they are available. Basic participatory media
> > literacies could arguably change observed outcomes. I cannot count how many
> > times I have helped people unlock functionality they did not know about in
> > many existing social software platforms, such as WordPress, Drupal, Media
> > Wiki, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > So what happens when people with an interest in governance don't have
> > > the skills/time/interest to be programmers? Well, I guess that's
> > > where they/we either develop basic skills and/or engage in the type
> > > of lobbying with owners. In the case of the latter, a
> > > representational structure creeps in and consequently structures the
> > > mode of communication. And as you note, frustrations very quickly
> > > arise.  It's no wonder that the net is so often presupposed as
> > > inherently 'democratic' because of the way so many communicative
> > > relations online reproduce the structural dynamics of 'democracy'.
> > > But most thinking of net democracy still assumes a form of democracy
> > > that reproduces the tropes of liberal democracy and the state form
> > > (e.g. the residue of the citizen-subject is carried over to the net,
> > > which I think is a big mistake).
> > >
> > > The very existence of owners/sysops indicates the non-participatory
> > > (or at least closed circle) dimension of networks. There is
> > > frequently very little communication/participation between admins and
> > > users.  And most are fine with this relation. Who wants to clear our
> > > spam every day on a mailing list for example, or attend to the
> > > numerous admin requests to process postings from non-subscribers
> > > (which this list still has a strangely high amount of)?
> > >
> > > The other obvious thing to note is that the culture of governance
> > > varies considerably across widely adopted applications. Geert Lovink
> > > documents this well in his analysis of mailing list cultures. This
> > > points to the fact that a universal model of network governance will
> > > never exist.
> > >
> > > Personally, I'd be interested to read about how free labour in mmog's
> > > might be thought of in terms of governance, and how such relations
> > > and modes of production might hold the potential for political
> > > organization.  And I'm interested in anthropologies on the governance
> > > of small-scale projects - partly because such work can enable an
> > > immanent relation and thus analysis of the practice of building
> > > networks & concepts (i.e. network governance, in other words).
> > >
> > > Another reason analyses of network governance are important is
> > > because they reveal the limits or borders of networks. The conflicts
> > > that arise within and across networks helps us understand the 'the
> > > political' of networks and their geocultural dimensions.
> > >
> > > best
> > > Ned
> > >
> > > On 2 Feb 2008, at 21:40, Michel Bauwens wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Ned,
> > > >
> > > > I saw a review of your book and particularly this quote, see below.
> > > >
> > > > As you perhaps know, I have recently paid attention to problems of
> > > > peer governance, which is I think very similar to your concept of
> > > > the governance of organized networks, and I feel I can subscribe to
> > > > what you say there. I have been mentioning the issues with
> > > > wikipedia, digg, and soon, the amazon reviewing process.
> > > >
> > > > They all share the problems that the participatory processes have
> > > > serious dysfunctions, and that the platform owners lack a certain
> > > > legitimacy to tackle them, hence a natural inclination to perhaps
> > > > think that formal democratic procedures may be of use, as already
> > > > applied with success in the apache community etc...
> > > >
> > > > I would love to have your opinion on this, and then to publish it
> > > > in our blog as well.
> > > >
> > > > reference to review http://rccs.usfca.edu/bookinfo.asp?
> > > > ReviewID=535&BookID=388
> > > >
> > > > quote:
> > > >
> > > > In Part I, Rossiter investigates the challenge for democracy in
> > > > organized networks. Representative democracy is generally assumed
> > > > to be a failed institution in this book, but its emphasis on
> > > > vertical, hierarchical structuring, even with a careful
> > > > consideration of multi-stakeholderism, is considered to be
> > > > especially ineffective for the horizontal, distributive capacities
> > > > of networks. As Rossiter puts it frankly: "It is time to abandon
> > > > the illusion that the myths of representational democracy might
> > > > somehow be transferred and realized within networked settings. That
> > > > is not going to happen" (95). In the call to rethink
> > > > representational democracy, the author hopes that organized
> > > > networks, which include perhaps virtual and informal social
> > > > movement organizations, will "make a strategic turn and begin to
> > > > scale up their operations in ways that would situate them within
> > > > the formal/centralized [organizational] quadrant, but in such a
> > > > manner that retains their informal, distributed and tactical
> > > > capacities" (75). Refreshing in this book is the argument that the
> > > > so-called open character of organized networks ought to attempt to
> > > > match up with power-wielding networked organizations to achieve
> > > > anything. In this sense, Rossiter is a realist, pragmatic in his
> > > > hope for intervention and change for a better world. This, I
> > > > believe, is Organized Networks' unique contribution to theory: a
> > > > middle way can be had between radically decentered movements on the
> > > > Web and centralized organizational regimes which hold all the power
> > > > in our world. To achieve this meta-collaboration -- or meta-
> > > > confrontation, depending on how one looks at it -- the focus must
> > > > be on formation rather than form, on "relational processes not
> > > > representational procedures" (13).
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
> > > > alternatives.
> > > >
> > > > Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at http://
> > > > blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at http://integralvisioning.org/
> > > > index.php?topic=p2p
> > > >
> > > > Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499;
> > > > interview at http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-
> > > > world-to-come.html
> > > > BEST VIDEO ON P2P: http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?
> > > > docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU
> > > >
> > > > KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at http://del.icio.us/
> > > > mbauwens
> > > >
> > > > The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN, http://
> > > > www.shiftn.com/
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sam Rose
> > Social Synergy
> > Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> > Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> > AIM: Str9960
> > Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> > skype: samuelrose
> > email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> > http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> > http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com
> >
> > Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> > OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
> > http://p2pfoundation.net
> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> > http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> > http://barcampbank.org
> > http://bfwatch.barcampbank.org
> > http://communitywiki.org
> > http://extinctionlevelevent.com
> >
> > Information Filtering:
> > http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
> > http://del.icio.us/srose
> > http://twitter.com/SamRose
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
> alternatives.
>
> Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
> http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p
>
> Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
> http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
> BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
> http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU
>
> KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
>
> The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
> http://www.shiftn.com/
>

-- 
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
AIM: Str9960
Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com

Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
http://p2pfoundation.net
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
http://www.cooperationcommons.com
http://barcampbank.org
http://bfwatch.barcampbank.org
http://communitywiki.org
http://extinctionlevelevent.com

Information Filtering:
http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
http://del.icio.us/srose
http://twitter.com/SamRose
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