[p2p-research] [P2P Foundation] From Citizendium To Eduzendium

[Jon Awbrey]

o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o

Michel,

It may take me several passes to work through your text below.

Let me begin with your definition of peer production,
even though I remain a little troubled by a nagging
sense that some essential element of equality is
missing from the mix.

| Peer production has three aspects:
| 1) voluntary contributions;
| 2) participatory processes;
| 3) commons oriented output.

You have stated your opinion that Wikipedia exemplifies
or exhibits the characters of 1 and 3, lacking only 2.

There are several questions that I would have to ask at the outset:

A. Is peer production like "fire production", where missing any side
   of the "fire triangle" -- fuel, heat, oxygen -- breaks the chain
   of necessary causes?  Or does one get partial credit for 2/3?

B. What is the output?  What is the product of ultimate interest?
   Is it the content of documents and files, the content of minds,
   or is it the conditional general resolution of people to act in
   certain ways, in short, beliefs?

C. What does it say about the level of voluntary contribution
   when there is a very high level of involuntary exclusion?

Sufficient unto the day ...

Jon Awbrey

Michel Bauwen wrote:
>
> Very clear reply ....
> 
> though I'm still unsatisfied, and the reason is of course, that,
> despite the failing of enacting values in the participatory process,
> it still has 2 of the 3 functions of peer production,
> 
> let's say that for me peer production is an objective mode that
> potentially expresses an 'espoused ideal', and to different degrees,
> it will have discrepancies with how these ideals are espoused.
> 
> The other thing though, is how to establish a kind of cutting off point,
> when it really becomes something else.
> 
> Take Russia, at what point did it become something altogether different
> than the originally espoused ideals of socialism?  How real where the
> original soviets? how significant was it that competing interpretations
> where suppressed from the very start; and what did it really become when
> stalinism was fully consolidated as a new system: was it state socialism,
> state capitalism ?? extremely difficult questions
> 
> and here we are at the very beginning of peer production,
> witnessing a degradation ... at what point does it really
> turn into something altogether different??
> 
> So my question to you is:
> 
> what then, has it become?
> 
> If not peer production and governance, you would then have
> to explain to me how to 'explain away the input and output
> feature, as being also part of another system? and then
> explain that other system, which in my eyes, is not
> a market, nor a command and control system ...
> 
> So my problem is: 1) to see it as a degeneration of peer production
> and governance, but still exemplying this new mode of production;
> and we can then discuss the various degrees of degeneration and
> perhaps indicate cut-off points (by analogy, when did the perhaps
> original council system become a top down but different system,
> only retaining public property, but embedding it in a new extremely
> totalitarian and unequal hierarchy system);
> 
> 2) to see it as something different than peer production, yet another mode?
> 
> Please explain how you see this,
> 
> Michel

o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
inquiry e-lab: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/
mwb: http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:Jon_Awbrey
mathweb: http://www.mathweb.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey
getwiki: http://www.getwiki.net/-UserTalk:Jon_Awbrey
p2p wiki: http://www.p2pfoundation.net/User:JonAwbrey
zhongwen wp: http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey
ontolog: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?JonAwbrey
http://www.altheim.com/ceryle/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=JonAwbrey
wp review: http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showuser=398
o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o