[p2p-research] Fwd: Towards a Natural P2P Theory

Thu Dec 25 10:59:17 CET 2008

Dear Marc,

this is great I'm happy you are using our platform to develop this important
theoretical contribution,

Let me know when this project can be announced via our blog,

Michel

On 12/24/08, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From new P2P Foundation wiki page:
> http://p2pfoundation.net/Thermoeconomics
>
> This will be linked to from the P2P Social Currency
> <http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Social_Currency_Model>
>
> As an engineer, I'm much more familiar with natural/physical side than the
> social side, so this could be an opportunity to collaborate.
>
> Premise
>
> We can define a model of society that is optimal with respect to our morals
> and ideals, but if we do not look at the observed laws of nature (and
> particularly the laws of thermodynamics), which constrain any model that
> involves physical resources, the model will run aground sooner or later.
>
> This does not make the social model any less relevant than the observed
> physical laws. They are both equally important to understand, and they can
> be made to work together in harmony.
>
> In the context of this article, we are concerned with bringing P2P social
> models and Thermoeconomic models (or thermodynamic models of the economy)
> together in harmony in the form of a Natural P2P Social Theory.
> Background
>
> Thermoeconomics is a general loosely defined economic model based on the
> idea that the economic construct of cost is ultimately derived from the cost
> of energy. This axiom (or starting truth) is then used, along with the laws
> of thermodynamics, to construct a model of the economy that works with, not
> against, physical law.
>
> The term Thermoeconomics was coined in the 1960s by American engineer Myron
> Tribus <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myron_Tribus>. However, the ideas of
> thermoeconomics are often arrived at independently and naturally by those
> who have an interest in both the laws of nature and the economy.
>
> So far, Thermoeconomic theory has focused almost entirely (or entirely) on
> modeling the economy as a thermodynamic system and not enough focus has been
> given to social and moral ideals.
>
> This author has been a model of P2P social currency that combines the
> thermodynamic model of the economy from Thermoeconomics with the author's
> evolving comprehension of P2P social theory.
>
> Thus, this article, which strives to reconcile both worlds, is expected to
> become part of the author's current work on P2P Social Currency for
> Renewable Energy Economy<http://p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Social_Currency_Model>
> Towards a Natural P2P Theory Thermodynamic Cost Constraints in a P2P
> Economy Laws of Thermodynamics: Definitions
>
> Thermodynamics is a branch of physics which deals with the energy and work
> of a system. Thermodynamics deals only with the *large scale response* of a
> system which we can observe and measure in experiments.
>
> *1st Law* (also related: conservation of energy, conservation of mass,
> conservation of momentum):
>
> "Within a given domain, the amount of energy remains constant and energy is
> neither created nor destroyed. Energy can be converted from one form to
> another (potential energy can be converted to kinetic energy) but the total
> energy within the domain remains fixed." (source: NASA website)
>
> *2nd Law* (as a follow up to the 1st law):
>
> "We can imagine thermodynamic processes which conserve energy but which
> never occur in nature. For example, if we bring a hot object into contact
> with a cold object, we observe that the hot object cools down and the cold
> object heats up until an equilibrium is reached. The transfer of heat goes
> from the hot object to the cold object.
>
> We can imagine a system, however, in which the heat is instead transferred
> from the cold object to the hot object, and such a system *does not violate*
> the *first law* of thermodynamics. The cold object gets colder and the hot
> object gets hotter, but energy is conserved. Obviously we don't encounter
> such a system in nature and to explain this and similar observations,
> thermodynamicists proposed a second law of thermodynamics. Clasius, Kelvin,
> and Carnot proposed various forms of the second law to describe the
> particular physics problem that each was studying.
>
> The description of the second law stated here was taken from Halliday and
> Resnick's textbook, "Physics". It begins with the definition of a new state
> variable called entropy. Entropy has a variety of physical interpretations,
> including the statistical disorder of the system (very relevant to
> thermoeconomic information processing), dispersal of energy, etc, but for
> our purposes, however you may define entropy (using whatever
> interpretation), let us consider entropy to be just another property of the
> system, like (not as) temperature.
>
> What the second law states, is that for a given physical process, the
> combined entropy of the system and the environment remains a constant if the
> process can be reversed.
>
> An example of a reversible process is *ideally* forcing a flow through a
> constricted pipe. "Ideal" means no boundary layer losses. As the flow moves
> through the constriction, the pressure, temperature and velocity change, but
> these variables return to their original values downstream of the
> constriction. The state of the gas returns to its original conditions and
> the change of entropy of the system is zero. Engineers call such a process
> an isentropic. Isentropic means constant entropy.
>
> The second law states that if the physical process is irreversible, the
> combined entropy of the system and the environment must increase. The final
> entropy must be greater than the initial entropy for an irreversible
> process.
>
> An example of an irreversible process is the problem discussed in the
> second paragraph. A hot object is put in contact with a cold object.
> Eventually, they both achieve the same equilibrium temperature. If we then
> separate the objects they remain at the equilibrium temperature and do not
> naturally return to their original temperatures. The process of bringing
> them to the same temperature is irreversible." (source: NASA website)
>
> (need to add 0th, 3rd, 4th laws)
> [edit<http://p2pfoundation.net/Thermoeconomics?title=Thermoeconomics&action=edit&section=10>
> ]
> Laws of Thermodynamics: Implications
>
> When it comes to bits and bytes that, in a P2P Economy, carry both the
> transactions for goods and services as well as digital goods and services,
> some of the the physical constraints that follow from the first and second
> laws of thermodynamics are:
>  1. The continuous cost of energy used for powering the hardware at every
> point, from desktop to network core, mesh infrastructure or the hardware
> landscape, including the communication channels (including the cost of
> maintaining the energy generation capacity and adapting it into the future)  2.
> The continuous cost of energy for the maintenance and adapting of the
> hardware at every point, from desktop to network core, mesh infrastructure
> or the hardware landscape, including the communication channels. This
> includes energy used in the development and manufacturing of new hardware or
> the production of replacement parts.  3. The continuous cost of energy for
> powering our human hardware (or bioware), including our information
> processing capability (our brain) and our communication channels (our
> senses)  4. The continuous cost of energy for the maintenance and adapting
> of our human hardware (or bioware), including our information processing
> capability (our brain) and our communication channels (our senses)
>
>
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>
>

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