[p2p-research] Thermoeconomics + Re: Ontologies

[paola.dimaio at gmail.com]

This reference to language as a model of adaptation/evolution   is
very important
Look forward to be reading more about it
P

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 8:01 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Paola,
>
> This is my thesis:
>
> The complex, adaptive behavior represented by our own human immune system
> (not the behavior of ant colonies or bacteria), which is affected by our
> psychology (emotions, ego, etc), nutrition, genetics, and our environment,
> may provide a shared biological basis for the process by which we maintain
> and adapt our internal model of language. Or, at least, it provides a model
> of an adaptive process that can be applied to the problem of maintaining and
> adapting open complex systems such as ontologies.
>
> --
>
> Thanks for permission to quote from your paper.
>
> Marc
>
> On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 7:34 AM, <paola.dimaio at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks a lot Marc
>>
>> for the interesting comments
>> the way natural organisms are adaptive is very intresting and we can
>> certainly learn a lot , but from my observations so far, social
>> systems have to deal with additional complexities
>>
>> people are very different from ants and bacteria, cause they have
>> egos, emotions, personality, opinions, fears, egoes (again) and lots
>> of other characteristics that are unique to humans
>>
>>
>> I think the paper can be freely cited, and reasonable quotes excerpted
>> with due credits
>>
>> the slides are also referenceable
>>
>>
>> www.slideshare.net/PaolaDIM/digital-ecosystems-ontology-entropy-by-paola-di-maio
>> -
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 4:03 PM, marc fawzi <marc.fawzi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Paola,
>> >
>> > Your paper definitely shines a light on an important area in engineering
>> > of
>> > complex open systems, i.e.: the need for continuous maintenance.
>> >
>> > While there is a need for continuous maintenance of ontologies, language
>> > itself seems to be self-maintaining, and that's evident by the fact that
>> > we
>> > are able to use it with the same degree of success after many hundreds
>> > of
>> > years, which implies that we're continuously maintaining our internal
>> > model
>> > of it.
>> >
>> > I believe that the mechanisms underlying our biological immune system
>> > are
>> > the same mechanisms, algorithmically speaking, as the mechanisms that
>> > maintain our internal model of language. This means that language has
>> > shared
>> > biological basis, which explains how it's able to maintain itself
>> > without a
>> > central authority.
>> >
>> > In the case of the immune system, we (humans) have adapted to foreign
>> > proteins like the sugar protein in dairy and red meat. Primates have
>> > not.
>> > Their immune system attacks those proteins which get absorbed into their
>> > tissue, thus causing inflammation etc, which is why they avoid dairy and
>> > red
>> > meat.
>> >
>> > So the design of an 'adaptive immune system' is, IMO, a key piece in the
>> > puzzle for self-maintaining complex [open] systems, including
>> > ontologies.
>> >
>> > So instead of listening to people like Clay Shirky who've suggested that
>> > ontologies are a dead end we should be looking at how our biological
>> > immune
>> > system works (and why it fails when it does), how it learns to resist
>> > viral
>> > infection, and how it adapts to distinguish between pathogens and food,
>> > so
>> > we may gain clues as to how we may design self-healing, dynamic
>> > ontologies
>> > that are open to new concepts, modified versions of existing concepts,
>> > disturbance, etc.
>> >
>> > That's all I can think of for now as far as ontologies go. I plan to
>> > blog
>> > about it in the not too distant future.
>> >
>> > The way your paper relates to thermoeconomics, IMHO, is that it
>> > highlights
>> > the need for constant maintenance of our information processing
>> > capability,
>> > not just our communication channels, so I'd re-phrase the four types of
>> > costs I'm aware of as follows:
>> >
>> > When it comes to bits and bytes some of the the physical constraints
>> > that
>> > follow from the first and second laws of thermodynamics are:
>> >
>> > 1. The continuous cost of energy used for powering the hardware at every
>> > point, from desktop to network core, mesh infrastructure or the hardware
>> > landscape, including the communication channels (including the cost of
>> > maintaining the energy generation capacity and adapting it into the
>> > future)
>> >
>> > 2. The continuous cost of energy for the maintenance and adapting of the
>> > hardware at every point, from desktop to network core, mesh
>> > infrastructure
>> > or the hardware landscape, including the communication channels. This
>> > includes energy used in the development and manufacturing of new
>> > hardware or
>> > the production of replacement parts.
>> >
>> > 3. The continuous cost of energy for powering our human hardware (or
>> > bioware), including our information processing capability (our brain)
>> > and
>> > our communication channels (our senses)
>> >
>> > 4. The continuous cost of energy for the maintenance and adapting of our
>> > human hardware (or bioware), including our information processing
>> > capability (our brain) and our communication channels (our senses)
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > I plan to get started on the new Thermoeconomics section of the P2P
>> > Foundation wiki later (after the holidays) and I am wondering if your
>> > paper
>> > is available under CC license?  What is the copying policy?
>> >
>> > I had used copy&pasted physics definitions from a NASA website in my
>> > previous email (in quotations) and I'm not sure what the general
>> > copyright
>> > policy is for excerpts, i.e. what is 'fair use' ?
>> >
>> > Marc
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 8:18 PM, <paola.dimaio at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Marc
>> >>> thanks for your interest
>> >>> this is the last working draft, it should be the final version
>> >>> let me know what you think
>> >>> p
>> >>
>> >
>> >