[p2p-research] Discussing the rhizomatic state

[Michel Bauwens]

http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/from-the-nation-state-via-the-market-state-to-the-rhizomatic-state/2008/08/13

http://www.jeffvail.net/thenewmap.pdf ;
http://www.jeffvail.net/atheoryofpower.pdf,
http://www.jeffvail.net/2005/09/defending-pala-rhizome-as-mode-of.html

Dear Jeff,

I discuss your essay on the rhizomatic state tomorrow on the blog, see
above.

In my discussion, I make three comments that you may want to respond to,
here they are:

I do have some general remarks though, that make the approach insufficient
in my own understanding of the topic.

1) does it make sense to counterpose so radically the distributed and
hierarchical formats? For example, Manuel De
Landa<http://p2pfoundation.net/Meshworks>insists that meshworks and
hierarchies always mix. I also miss the in my
mind clear distinction between centralization (hierarchy), decentralisation
(division of power in competing groups and institutions) and distribution
(bottom up dynamics of free agents). If this is true, then we have to start
formulating the issue in a different way, as in: which form of state or
hierarchy is beneficial for peer to peer dynamics

2) Jeff's text seems to focus exclusively on what I would call the dark side
of peer to peer, i.e. primary social groups, often authoritarian in
character, who use peer to peer tactics and formats to win a struggle and
organize themselves, but within a reactionary mindset. They exist and exert
a powerful pressure, but what about the effect of positive social practices
and forms of organization, who mix peer to peer formats with a peer to peer
intent? Surely the resulting state form of both groups and endeavours would
be sensible different?

3) by doing this, it then focuses on state forms such as those of the
hezbollah, al qaeda, etc… which are of course real and influential, but give
a format to the rhizomatic state that may not at all be acceptable to the
social forces that I'm observing. So I feel this other aspect is
insufficiently theorized. I have formulated, following Cosmo Orsi's lead,
the concept of the Partner State to indicate the state form that would
supersede the market state, and not follow its collapse, as indicated by the
examples cited by Jeff Vail.






-- 
The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
alternatives.

Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p

Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU

KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/attachments/20080812/46f3a15b/attachment.html