[p2p-research] Fwd: Gift Nodes for a Network of Gift Communities

Fri Nov 30 05:43:33 CET 2007

Hi Sam,

I suspect that some of the reason that some movements endure, and not
others, is that they successfully institutionalize, which in the past has
always come at a price, i.e. the creation of a 'collective individual',
which rises out of the full community and starts 'dominating' it, so it
survives, but in a way that is also partly unappealing to new energies.

It seems to me that we do have an extra chance of institutionalizing in new
ways that avoid this process.

Partly because we have learned more about social physics and value-conscious
design, but also partly because we have learned, and must learn, to make
these low-threshold activities. To really part of social life, they must
also become the natural thing to do and not a continuous extra effort which
is unsustainable in the long run.

I tried to participate once in the local exchange in brussels, and the only
thing I remember is how much energy it took, and I couldn't fit it in my
busy life ...

Michel

On Nov 30, 2007 3:36 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree with you Lion, about focusing on movements that resonate with
> people, and with creating shared stories.
>
> The other thing that I was getting at, was that I think that a a really
> sustainable system, that can be a close companion to "alternative
> currencies" will emerge not from exchange, bartering, or trading, but from
> high quality sharing. I wrote about this here, today:
>
> http://spreadloveproject.pbwiki.com/WhuffieAccounting#Intro
>
> This doesn't negate what you are talking about, I agree with you Lion.
>
> Yet, I also find more and more that people people are more interested in
> "giving" and or sharing, rather than figuring out how they will barter or
> put a price on what they are offering.
>
> But, there are people who are also offering things that they really cannot
> accept anything other than "hard currency" for. So, I think there is a place
> for alternative bartering currencies, and a place for enhancements to giving
> and sharing
>
> Either way, I think what you are talking about applies, Lion. The idea
> that I have in practice rigth now, with the people copied on this email, and
> elsewhere, is to take existing "movements" and help the work with other
> "movements" to  give/share, pool resources, and create exchanges and
> bartering when necessary. I am more for the giving/sharing and pooling, than
> the buying/selling or bartering for the most part. giving/sharing and
> pooling I think my energies will create more re-useable value.
>
> In fact, I think a big part of the "dying off" of these alternative
> currency networks is precisely because they do focus on buying/selling or
> bartering, which is a "zero sum" set of exchanges, where one person must
> "lose " a deplete able resource of another within the system to "gain".
> This is not the only part of it, there are also the cultural aspects that
> you are talking about.
>
> I think that systems dedicated to mosly buying/selling or bartering be
> bolstered by injections of supplemental surplus resources, because they are
> made up of people who are in part not always focused on optimizing their
> participation in buying/selling or bartering. Local State and Federal
> governments do this by subsidizing with tax money. If those governments did
> not subsidize with tax money, these economies would suffer (like th economy
> of michigan suffers right now).
>
> My theory, and perhaps the theory of others, is that giving, sharing and
> pooling can be a grassroots way of subsidizing both alternative and regular
> systems of buying/selling or bartering. My theory is that if these open and
> self-governed giving/sharing/pooling foundations exist, then they will
> bolster the more "fragile" economies of buying/selling or bartering.
>
> But, they also need the "movements" that you talk about, Lion. I think
> that some of the people who are copied on this email are connected to at
> least some of the most likely existing "movements" that will be able to make
> this happen...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 29, 2007 3:04 PM, Lion Kimbro <lionkimbro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  I'd focus more attention to:
> >    "How do alternative exchange systems continue to thrive?"
> >
> >  I read that -- many exchanges have come to hum,
> >  but most collapsed 1-5 years after.
> >
> >  Very few continue, like the Ithaca HOUR, or the Italian Credito.
> >
> >  The Seattle account is here:
> >    http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/Community_currency
> >
> >
> >  The scenario I am entertaining is:
> >  * perhaps there was a Zeitgeist of Anarchist thinking in Seattle,
> >    around that time?
> >    - Blue Moon, Fabulous Rainbow, Neptune Theater, Cellophane Square,
> >      Cause Celebre, Left Bank Books, Morningtown Pizza, Fremont Women's
> >      Health Collective, the 45th street clinic, ...
> >    - (they fit the bill)
> >
> >  That is, I suspect there was a social movement at work at the time,
> >  and a sense of shared solidarity, of working towards something.
> >
> >  In our conversation:
> >    http://www.communitywiki.org/en/2007-11-27_en
> >
> >    Lion:  I guess that– when it gets down to it,
> >      people have to have a sense that they're doing something with
> > others.
> >
> >    Samuel:  also, there may be some messages within that,
> >      that will resonate further
> >
> >    Lion:  Or participating in something with others.
> >
> >    Samuel:  err, yeah you are right  :)
> >
> >
> >  I'm suspecting that *movements* are important to these
> >  things working, that there is some cross-community
> >  story guiding people to trade with one another.
> >
> >  What we want isn't just a *movement,* but a movement
> >  that "stays there;"  what I'll call a "sustainable movement."
> >  That means that the movement has to have as part of it's
> >  story, about how it crosses across ages and peoples, so that
> >  it's not just the exuberance of a decade.
> >
> >  The "Long Now" idea, the sustainability movement,
> >  "New Realism" of Helmut Leitner, these "voices of maturity,"
> >  have something of what I believe is needed.
> >
> >  If these ideas are taken into account, I believe we can
> >  handle a story (and a culture) of an alternative currency that
> >  can stick past the initial exuberance.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 29, 2007 7:52 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have copied Tara and Geoff on this email. I think the idea of
> > "thanking"
> > > people helps to re-inforce and sustain the exchanges. It is a key
> > missing
> > > component, I believe, in many alternative economies. I think this is
> > why
> > > even vibrant alternative economies have failed in the past, as myself
> > and
> > > Lion Kimbro discussed on this page recently, where Lion talked about
> > the
> > > eventual disintegration of once vibrant alternative currency/economies
> > in
> > > the Seattle area during the 1970's/1980's.
> > >
> > > Myself and Lion conjectured that these systems "crest and fall"
> > because the
> > > "feeling" of building something new, good, beneficial, that people got
> > from
> > > their participation was not passed on to new members once the original
> >
> > > people faded out of the system. So, systems that re-inforce this
> > "feeling"
> > > in genuine ways are a key ingredients, in my opinion.
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Sam Rose
> Social Synergy
> Cel: +1-517-974-6451
> AIM: Str9960
> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> skype: samuelrose
> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com
>
> Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
> http://p2pfoundation.net
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> http://barcampbank.org
> http://bfwatch.barcampbank.org
> http://communitywiki.org
> http://extinctionlevelevent.com
>
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>

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