[p2p-research] Fwd: Gift Nodes for a Network of Gift Communities

Thu Nov 29 16:52:55 CET 2007

Geoff Chesshire (http://regenerosity.com)  also mentioned
http://givegetnation.net and William Shanely :)

I think it would be awesome to learn from the approaches of Timothy and
William.

One of the things that I am thinking about is how to employ existing data
that is output by existing workspaces that each group is using, and then put
that together, perhaps in an online aggregator, but limited to groups who
agree to participate. Each group could also but a link to this on their own
"gifts" pages. This could be a quick way to make 'version .01'., without
asking any particular group to radically change what they are doing right ,
or where they are doing it.  Some people's work group software can show rss
feeds right on pages, so this can be a way to give a window into the wider
"group to group" network

Overtime, we could, and definitely should,  explore moving these activities
into a software environment that can give more convenience, more tools for
encouraging and aiding useful gift ecologies.

I also think that both Tara Hunt, and her rapidly growing
http://spreadloveproject.pbwiki.com/ and Geoff Chessire's
http://regenerosity.com have some seriously useful ideas for enabling/aiding
and aiding group-to-group cooperation/collaboration.

I have copied Tara and Geoff on this email. I think the idea of "thanking"
people helps to re-inforce and sustain the exchanges. It is a key missing
component, I believe, in many alternative economies. I think this is why
even vibrant alternative economies have failed in the past, as myself and
Lion Kimbro discussed on this page recently, where Lion talked about the
eventual disintegration of once vibrant alternative currency/economies in
the Seattle area during the 1970's/1980's.

Myself and Lion conjectured that these systems "crest and fall" because the
"feeling" of building something new, good, beneficial, that people got from
their participation was not passed on to new members once the original
people faded out of the system. So, systems that re-inforce this "feeling"
in genuine ways are a key ingredients, in my opinion.

On Nov 29, 2007 12:59 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm also sharing this with Timothy Wilken (giftegrity) and william shanley
> (givegetnation) who have created software to organize gift giving, perhaps
> it would be useful,
>
> Michel
>
> On Nov 26, 2007 9:15 PM, Samuel Rose < samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is a reply to "Gift Nodes/Exchange Nodes" from Andrius
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: < ms at auste.elnet.lt>
> > Date: Nov 26, 2007 5:19 AM
> > Subject: Gift Nodes for a Network of Gift Communities
> > To: workinginparallel at yahoogroups.com , cyfranogi at yahoogroups.com,
> > holistichelping at yahoogroups.com, p2presearch at listcultures.org
> >
> >
> > Sam,
> >
> > I'm very glad for the steps that we're taking to work together to create
> > an
> > online environment for for facilitating our work on all many of
> > endeavors.  I
> > look forward to working with you, Steve Bosserman and others as
> > organizers,
> > innovators and software developers.  I will write to our working groups
> > Working In Parallel (online environments) and Cyfranogi (community
> > currency)
> > and Holistic Helping (especially in Africa) and thank you if you might
> > share
> > my letter with the P2Presearch list and our groups converse.
> >
> > I'm appreciating more and more your interests in setting up the Gift
> > nodes
> > across a variety of wikis.  What we could do then is to create a page
> > that
> > aggregates information from such pages.  That page could help us
> > understand
> > which community is active and/or interested in giving and receiving what
> > kinds of gifts.  Then we could engage wiki communities but also work
> > with
> > community currency communities (which often have such directories) and
> > with
> > global villages (which I think often have a strong gift ethic).
> >
> > One of my purposes is to encourage outreach amongst communities so that
> > we
> > have a wider economy. I'm starting to think that the economy is a
> > spectrum of
> > relationships from "strangers" to "friends".  A different kind of
> > instrument
> > is effective at each point on the spectrum.  So, for example, the usual
> > money
> > is a very effective way of engaging, including total strangers, but it
> > can
> > also make total strangers out of friends.  A LETS system is a great way
> > of
> > meeting people and making friends in a community, but it might destroy a
> > civic organization run by volunteers.  A timebank is a great way to
> > enroll
> > new volunteers, but it might cause unhelpful friction if a family ran
> > itself
> > with one.  There are different kinds of gift giving and they are
> > appropriate
> > I suppose for different kinds of relationships.  Love is at the extreme
> > of
> > the spectrum, because it is an unconditional giving, as when parents
> > give to
> > their children or spouses to each other or we help those who can't help
> > themselves.
> >
> > I have noticed that our Minciu Sodas laboratory http://www.ms.lt has a
> > vibrant economy of gift giving http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Gifts These
> > are generally gifts from one person to another.  They are quite
> > voluntary.
> > They express a wish to give and receive help.  They come with an
> > expectation
> > that the gift will be used well.  I encourage that this also be
> > structured as
> > "work" so that the expectation is indeed satisfied and not left hanging,
> > and
> > so that the giver also grows by being engaged in the purpose of the
> > work.  So
> > often (but not always) it is the gift of paid work.  I think our
> > participants
> > appreciate that our laboratory attracts wonderful people who need and
> > want
> > help.  But generally I think our givers know that if the gift is used
> > well,
> > then by definition, others will benefit - even if they don't benefit
> > directly, or anybody else within our lab, for that matter.  I will add
> > that
> > each such gift makes our lab more valuable for our participants.
> >
> > Our laboratory is a business and the hardest part is always finding new
> > work
> > and new clients.  I don't want to "work on speculation" unless that is
> > on
> > projects of strategic interest to myself and our lab.  I am developing
> > certain capabilities that might be valuable to others.  Here is a simple
> >
> > example: for our lab, I have downloaded 20,000 of our Yahoo groups
> > letters
> > and am making that available for distribution on USB flash drives.  I
> > could
> > do something similar for other organizations.  Perhaps they would pay
> > me, but
> > I imagine it would be hard to make a business of it.  Instead, however,
> > I
> > might do that for others as a "gift".  That would make economic sense
> > for me
> > if I knew that they would acknowledge it as a gift they want and likely
> > reciprocate with a gift - maybe not for me, but for somebody in our lab.
> > That would be enough for me to justify spending a lot of energy on such
> > gifts
> > as it would strengthen our gift economy, create value, and most
> > importantly
> > for me - extend the reach of our lab's economy so that more people might
> > see
> > us work and consider giving us paid work.  My business goal is therefore
> > to
> > encourage us to document our gift economies - not the tit-for-tat
> > exchanges -
> > but rather the directory of services, both offered/desired, but also
> > given/received.  This information would allow our communities to have a
> > wider
> > economy.  I think that is crucial because, as I am realizing, in a group
> > of
> > friends there may be a lot of sharing but there isn't too much role for
> > money, because money is an instrument for engaging strangers.  So we
> > need
> > more strangers! so we could get more paid work.
> >
> > Sam, Steve, Lion and all, I'm excited at how we might organize around
> > such
> > gift communities, encourage the creation of gift nodes, and then the
> > aggregation of information from then, and then the incorporation of
> > other
> > kinds of useful knowledge about people's endeavors, locations, values,
> > investigations and designing maps of ecosystems of endeavors that we
> > might
> > show and navigate.
> >
> > John Rogers http://www.valueforpeople.co.uk of Cyfranogi
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cyfranogi/ has a set of questions for
> > designing
> > such a community economy that we might apply here.  They go to the heart
> > of
> > the power relationships in such a system, what are they to be?
> >
> > I also ask our African participants at Holistic Helping, what are other
> > online communities that we might like to exchange gifts with?  Likewise,
> > what
> > are community currency communities that might be interested?  Or global
> > villages?
> >
> > Andrius
> >
> > Andrius Kulikauskas
> > Minciu Sodas
> > http://www.ms.lt
> > ms at ms.lt
> > in Chicago, then Missouri, San Diego, Chicago, Rome, Lithuania
> >
> > Data , "Samuel Rose" <samuel.rose at gmail.com> Rašyta:
> > >I had a great conference call with Steve Bosserman, and  Andrius
> > >Kulikauskas, of Minciu Sodas yesterday. One of the items Andrius
> > mentioned
> > >was a project on Work Nets wiki where participants are listing "gifts"
> > they
> > >have to offer, or items they'd like to receive, on their site:
> > >
> > >http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Gifts
> > >
> > >One of the things we talked about is that it seems to be more
> > successful
> > for
> > >smaller  groups who collaborate together, to create these types of
> > >exchanges, or giving "boards" amongst themselves, rather than creating
> > a
> > >monolithic "service" that is meant to attract many people who are
> > anonymous
> > >to one another. The groups of people who know each other are more at
> > ease
> > >giving and sharing like this.
> > >
> > >We have been exploring a bartering exchange at
> > > http://www.communitywiki.org/en/InternetExchange. This is a bit
> > different,
> > >in that it is meant to be a list of skills that can be bartered for in
> > some
> > >way, either for LETS, or for some "equivalent" skill.
> > >
> > >And, of course in P2P foundation, we're developing a resource pool.
> > >
> > >An idea that Andrius raised in our conference call was to think about
> > how
> > to
> > >connect "giving" networks between groups, so that, for instance if no
> > one
> > at
> > >http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Gifts is interested in what is being
> > >offered or requested there, maybe people in groups where there is
> > overlap
> > in
> > >participants, would be interested? It might be possible to create "Gift
> > >nodes" that connect these giving pages on different communities?  This
> > is
> > >kind of like we've created at http://www.communitywiki.org/en/WikiNode,
> > but
> > >specifically centered on connecting pages like
> > >http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Gifts
> > >
> > >My friend Lion Kimbor, who helped me create
> > >http://www.communitywiki.org/en/InternetExchange, has brought up the
> > point
> > >that there are some things that we would like to offer, but cannot
> > really
> > >afford to offer for free. There are some types of work that we would
> > like
> > to
> > >post as being available to do for the greater community, but would need
> > >something in exchange for (even if that is just LETS or community
> > currency
> > >that is used solely for those exchanges.)
> > >
> > >So, what I would like to propose is that it we could create a "Gift"
> > page
> > >that is similar to http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Gifts for the P2P
> > >foundation, and one for CommunityWiki. And, if there is interest, that
> > we
> > >might also create a local "InternetExchange" for P2P foundation and
> > perhaps
> > >Worknets, that is similar to
> > >http://www.communitywiki.org/en/InternetExchange, and that we create
> > links
> > >between these ("Gift Nodes", "Exchange Nodes"). And, we think about how
> > to
> > >keep these first centered and catered to their respective communities,
> > but
> > >also open for access between communities, mostly through symbolic link.
> > I
> > >propose that these pages would be public facing, like
> > >http://www.communitywiki.org/en/InternetExchange and
> > >http://www.worknets.org/wiki.cgi?Gifts
> > >
> > >If people are interested, I will make this a public-facing,
> > openly-editable
> > >"wiki" page on http://socialsynergyweb.com/resourcepool
> > >
> > >Lion, and Andrius, I have copied you on this email, and please feel
> > free to
> > >join
> > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.orgif
> > >you'd like this is a mailing list that grew from
> > >http://www.ntu.ac.uk/p2pworkshop2007/programme/index.html
> > >
> > >--
> > >Sam Rose
> > >Social Synergy
> > >Cel: +1-517-974-6451
> > >AIM: Str9960
> > >Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> > >skype: samuelrose
> > >email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> > >http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> > >http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com
> > >
> > >Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> > >OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
> > >http://p2pfoundation.net
> > >http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> > >http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> > >http://barcampbank.org
> > > http://bfwatch.barcampbank.org
> > >http://communitywiki.org
> > >http://extinctionlevelevent.com
> > >
> > >Information Filtering:
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> > >http://del.icio.us/srose
> > >http://twitter.com/SamRose
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sam Rose
> > Social Synergy
> > Cel: +1-517-974-6451
> > AIM: Str9960
> > Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> > skype: samuelrose
> > email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> > http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> > http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com
> >
> > Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> > OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
> > http://p2pfoundation.net
> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> > http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> > http://barcampbank.org
> > http://bfwatch.barcampbank.org
> > http://communitywiki.org
> > http://extinctionlevelevent.com
> >
> > Information Filtering:
> > http://socialsynergyweb.com/gregarius/
> > http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
> > http://del.icio.us/srose
> > http://twitter.com/SamRose
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
>
>
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-- 
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Cel: +1-517-974-6451
AIM: Str9960
Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com

Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
http://p2pfoundation.net
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
http://www.cooperationcommons.com
http://barcampbank.org
http://bfwatch.barcampbank.org
http://communitywiki.org
http://extinctionlevelevent.com

Information Filtering:
http://socialsynergyweb.com/gregarius/
http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
http://del.icio.us/srose
http://twitter.com/SamRose
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