[p2p-research] p2p resource pooling
Ned Rossiter
ned at nedrossiter.org
Sat Nov 24 19:59:57 CET 2007
it's great to see these developments racing ahead, but I think
there's something tragic about the funding legal fees in the first
instance. That's one of the reasons I'm not an advocate of CC - all
rounds eventually lead to the lawyer's bank account.
I like the idea of a LET's style in-kind contribution of skills/
capacities, and this is where the p2p network needs to expand to get
someone with some legal savvy on board. Andrew Kenyon at University
of Melbourne may be one such person (he's also familiar with US legal
systems, but if the US is going to be the primary legal code - which
makes some sense if p2p is going to register as a legal entity in the
US - then perhaps a friendly lawyer in the states is a better move. I
can contact Andrew if that's a good idea.
Also: I think an 'identity' and culture needs to be established in
order for people to have some kind of affective relation to this
network that translates into financial donations, subscriptions etc.
At least that's how I feel. Perhaps the p2p foundation provides that
identity, and there are some on this list that have strong
connections with p2p foundation. but it's hardly universal, at least
as far as this network is concerned.
So I wonder if more work needs to be done to build up the network -
to see if it has any legs - before all the legal work and financial
expenditure is done.
I saw a recent example of the legal and funding frameworks being done
with an alternative network in Seoul. They had heaps of money and no
ideas. In other words, they didn't know how to spend the money. I
think there's a danger of going down a similar path with this
network. But maybe I'm seeing this the wrong way - perhaps this
network is something that straps on to various existing projects.
After the nottingham meeting, though, I'm still unclear what those
are and what inter-connections exist.
best
Ned
On 24 Nov 2007, at 18:38, Samuel Rose wrote:
> yes, I was thining that one of the first things we can do as a beta
> group is to pool money to fund paying a lawyer to draft the needed
> legal framework, perhaps. Under the umbrella of p2pfoundation
> (perhaps as a non-profit LLC), but making sure we are covered under
> the agreements people make when they join. (This legal agreement
> could then be a template for future groups who want to adopt our
> processes, too).
>
> So, we could discuss amongst ourselves, and co-draft our agreed-
> upon rules, then put them in front of a lawyer, to make sure they
> comply with international law, and to make sure that users agree
> ahead of time not to sue or go after one another, and to make the
> non-profit LLC the holder of the assetts.
>
> On Nov 24, 2007 1:19 PM, Paul B. Hartzog <paulbhartzog at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Someone with appropriate legal savvy needs to make sure that the
> financial stuff is all taken care of appropriately so that there is no
> danger of nasty arguments down the road. :-)
>
> -p
>
> On Nov 24, 2007 1:13 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Good point, Paul. Will give you that access in a couple of
> minutes...
> >
> > Eventually, we would also maybe make a seperate paypal account,
> that could
> > be like donate at p2pfoundation.net , that Michel, plus project
> admins, plus
> > whomever is working with the money has access to, so that it is
> seperate.
> >
> > beyond that, we could save processing fees by eventually setting
> up a bank
> > account, and using bank's apparatus/payment gateway, as it would
> > theoretically be more secure, and have flat fee (or free with
> some credit
> > union business accounts)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 24, 2007 11:37 AM, Paul B. Hartzog <
> paulbhartzog at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Sam
> > > Although I can not likely do development in the foreseeable
> future, it
> > > would be good to have at least one other administrator than
> yourself.
> > > I am willing to be that backup person.
> > >
> > > -p
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 21, 2007 7:08 PM, Samuel Rose < samuel.rose at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > Thanks for the list, Ned (and Inst. for NC)!
> > > >
> > > > Just wanted to let anyone interested know that I am working
> on p2p
> > resource
> > > > pool site right now:
> > > >
> > > > http://socialsynergyweb.com/resourcepool/
> > > >
> > > > The basic idea that Michel conveyed to me, and the operating
> model is:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1) people contribute $/EURO 5 or 10 per month to the common pool
> > > >
> > > > 2) 40% of the money is given back to contributing individuals
> in a
> > monthly
> > > > pool of money
> > > >
> > > > 3) 40% is available for for-benefit activities. People
> describe their
> > > > activities, and if x number of members say 'ok', the money is
> given to
> > them
> > > >
> > > > 4) 15% of the pool is invested in some venture that can
> generate a
> > return
> > > >
> > > > 5) 5% is given to the administration of the project, i.e. the
> pool of
> > > > contributing organization"
> > > > So, I am starting to set up the mechanisms to enable automatic
> > recurring/and
> > > > one-time acceptance of donations, and community decision
> making for the
> > > > investing/for-benefit donations.
> > > >
> > > > Proposals could list what the money would be spent for, and
> people on
> > this
> > > > site could offer services in place of money, thereby possibly
> putting
> > some
> > > > of the needed money back into the donation pool.
> > > >
> > > > Plus, people could list surplus non-money resources
> somewhere, or needed
> > > > resources. And, people could just discuss what they need, and
> what they
> > have
> > > > in general, and what they are doing. (Sometimes people don't
> realize
> > what
> > > > they need, or what others have lying around gathering dust,
> until they
> > start
> > > > talking to each other...)
> > > > The site is, and will always be invite-only, and is still in
> development
> > at
> > > > this time. As soon as the basic functions are working
> correctly, I'll be
> > > > sure to invite anyone interested. The URL for the site may
> eventually
> > > > change. Anyone with Drupal knowledge who wants access now and
> can help
> > > > develop the site is welcome. Let me know and I'll send you an
> invite
> > right
> > > > away.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sam
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 21, 2007 6:45 PM, Ned Rossiter <ned at nedrossiter.org >
> wrote:
> > > > > hi all, great to meet all of you who could make it to the
> p2p meeting
> > > > > in nottingham. and for those who couldn't make it -
> greetings.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sam Rose
> > > > Social Synergy
> > > > Cel: +1-517-974-6451
> > > > AIM: Str9960
> > > > Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> > > > skype: samuelrose
> > > > email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> > > > http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> > > > http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com
> > > >
> > > > Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> > > > OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/
> FrontPage
> > > > http://p2pfoundation.net
> > > > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> > > > http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> > > > http://barcampbank.org
> > > > http://bfwatch.barcampbank.org
> > > > http://communitywiki.org
> > > > http://extinctionlevelevent.com
> > > >
> > > > Information Filtering:
> > > > http://socialsynergyweb.com/gregarius/
> > > > http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
> > > > http://del.icio.us/srose
> > > > http://twitter.com/SamRose
> > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > p2presearch mailing list
> > > > p2presearch at listcultures.org
> > > > http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/
> p2presearch_listcultures.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > http://www.PaulBHartzog.org
> > > http://www.panarchy.com
> > > PaulBHartzog at PaulBHartzog.org
> > > PaulBHartzog at panarchy.com
> > > PHartzog at umich.edu
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms.
> > > --Muriel Rukeyser
> > >
> > > See differently, then you will act differently.
> > > --Paul B. Hartzog
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Sam Rose
> > Social Synergy
> > Cel: +1-517-974-6451
> > AIM: Str9960
> > Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> > skype: samuelrose
> > email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> > http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> > http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com
> >
> > Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> > OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/
> FrontPage
> > http://p2pfoundation.net
> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> > http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> > http://barcampbank.org
> > http://bfwatch.barcampbank.org
> > http://communitywiki.org
> > http://extinctionlevelevent.com
> >
> > Information Filtering:
> > http://socialsynergyweb.com/gregarius/
> > http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
> > http://del.icio.us/srose
> > http://twitter.com/SamRose
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.PaulBHartzog.org
> http://www.panarchy.com
> PaulBHartzog at PaulBHartzog.org
> PaulBHartzog at panarchy.com
> PHartzog at umich.edu
> --------------------------------------------------------
> The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms.
> --Muriel Rukeyser
>
> See differently, then you will act differently.
> --Paul B. Hartzog
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> p2presearch mailing list
> p2presearch at listcultures.org
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>
>
>
> --
> Sam Rose
> Social Synergy
> Cel: +1-517-974-6451
> AIM: Str9960
> Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
> skype: samuelrose
> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
> http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com
>
> Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
> OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
> http://p2pfoundation.net
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> http://www.cooperationcommons.com
> http://barcampbank.org
> http://bfwatch.barcampbank.org
> http://communitywiki.org
> http://extinctionlevelevent.com
>
> Information Filtering:
> http://socialsynergyweb.com/gregarius/
> http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
> http://del.icio.us/srose
> http://twitter.com/SamRose
> _______________________________________________
> p2presearch mailing list
> p2presearch at listcultures.org
> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
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