[p2p-research] DRM standards
Michel Bauwens
michelsub2004 at gmail.com
Thu Dec 27 03:06:54 CET 2007
Thanks for chipping in Nicholas. May I invite you to join the p2presearch
mailing list?
Also, would it be possible to have some text/definition of both Common
Rights and REL for our wiki?
We already have http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Common_Rights but this is from
a different context ...
Michel
On Dec 26, 2007 3:41 PM, Nicholas Bentley <nicholas at commonrights.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I agree with both Henrik's and Hervé's interpretation on the problems of
> enforcing strong DRM in an open system and the problem of reducing the human
> complexity (copyright laws in this case) to logical rules. However I believe
> that producing open standards in Rights Expression Languages (RELs) and
> trying to express the rights associated with content clearly is a worthwhile
> endeavor.
>
> From the point of view of my alternative DRM system of Common Rights
> (which would be totally open itself) an open REL like ODRL would be very
> important because trying to clearly state the human/social rules is integral
> to the system. The reason why I believe the Common Rights system could be
> open in comparison to other DRM is because it relies on regulating *rights
> not content*. The CR system would define clearly who has what rights and
> then it relies on other social and environmental forces to encourage people
> to fairly reward authors and other contributors.
>
> So open standards in RELs is very important.
>
> Nicholas
>
>
> On Dec 25, 2007 9:39 PM, Hervé Le Crosnier <herve at info.unicaen.fr > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > ODRL is not a DRM cryptoghraphic system, but
> > a way to embed regulation in a XML format.
> >
> > So you can tell people what they are allowed to do.
> > Then, or they respect those prescription, or a
> > DRM system will make it mandatory.
> >
> > But the problem is as old as any way to reduce
> > human complexity to simple logical rules : if justice
> > is to exists, it can only be a human jugdment...
> >
> > So rules are to be simple, with no limitiation or
> > exception... but as far as you get a look to laws
> > concerning creativity, art, knowledge, intellectual work...
> > You will find limitation and exception that are the very core
> > of the possiblity to build a society with some
> > kind of knowledge (an emotional) sharing.
> >
> > What does a library have to do with simple "logical laws"
> > and DRM ?
> >
> > If computer can help humanity to find justice, i suppose
> > some will let us know :-))
> >
> > Hervé Le Crosnier
> >
> >
> >
> > Michel Bauwens a écrit :
> > > Thank you Henrik for your very cogent analysis.
> > >
> > > I hope you don't mind that I use your quotes for an entry on Open DRM?
> >
> > >
> > > Michel
> > >
> > >
> > > On Dec 26, 2007 1:31 AM, Henrik Ingo < henrik.ingo at avoinelama.fi
> > > <mailto: henrik.ingo at avoinelama.fi>> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Dec 24, 2007 8:11 AM, Michel Bauwens < michelsub2004 at gmail.com
> > > <mailto:michelsub2004 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > any commentary on this:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.xrml.org/about.asp
> > > > http://p2pfoundation.net/Open_Digital_Rights_Language
> > > >
> > > > just wondering how drm related 'open standards' should be
> > judged?
> > >
> > > I think the following short rule of thumb is a good start: For
> > various
> > > "ethics related" reasons one may be opposed to all DRM on
> > principle.
> > > On the other hand, if someone is going to use DRM, it is clearly
> > > better that they'd use an open standard - then at least there is a
> > > chance that the DRM is not a reason to make the content locked
> > into a
> > > proprietary one-vendor/one-platform solution. (Richard Stallman
> > would
> > > disagree with this opinion, saying that DRM is always a form of
> > > oppression and producing a good system of oppression is actually
> > worse
> > > than a bad system.)
> > >
> > >
> > > In practice even open standards DRM will always have to rely on
> > > something being kept secret from the end user / consumer and
> > therefore
> > > the opennes is of questionable value to the end user, who's role
> > is
> > > restricted to being just a consumer.
> > >
> > > Typically an open source content player is not a possibility, or
> > at
> > > least some library file providing the particular decryption
> > functions
> > > would have to be closed source. This because even if the DRM
> > system
> > > would be based on an open standard, at least some cryptographic
> > keys
> > > have to be hidden from the user. Other alternatives are to hide
> > the
> > > decryption component in some hardware, like a smartcard or the
> > > infamous TPM chip on a motherboard. Even so, something is
> > restricted
> > > from the end user, this is just another place to hide it. In
> > addition
> > > to hiding the decryption function, a proper DRM also wants to
> > protect
> > > the path from decryption to output device (so that you couldn't
> > copy
> > > the content anywhere within that path). This is why DVDs will play
> > > with lower resolution on Windows Vista unless you have a new
> > monitor
> > > that will give the proper responses in this game.
> > >
> > > From this discussion it is possible to argue that by traditional
> > > cryptographical standards "good" DRM is actually an impossible
> > problem
> > > to solve. While good cryptography always relies on the protocol
> > being
> > > public and only a key being secret, the problem DRM tries to solve
> > > necessarily leads to solutions that by cryptographical standards
> > would
> > > be considered ugly hacks. Hardware based solutions are slightly
> > better
> > > in this regard, since extracting the secret from a hardware chip
> > > really would be practically impossible. Nevertheless from a
> > > cryptographical point of view DRM is like eating the cake (giving
> > user
> > > content) and trying to keep it too (not giving user content).
> > >
> > > So in practice an open DRM system will always be like "doing the
> > wrong
> > > thing the right way".
> > >
> > > henrik
> > >
> > > --
> > > email: henrik.ingo at avoinelama.fi <mailto:
> > henrik.ingo at avoinelama.fi>
> > > tel: +358-40-5697354
> > > www: www.avoinelama.fi/~hingo<http://www.avoinelama.fi/%7Ehingo><http://www.avoinelama.fi/%7Ehingo
> > >
> > > book: www.openlife.cc <http://www.openlife.cc>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
> > > alternatives.
> > >
> > > Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
> > > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
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> > >
> > > Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview
> > at
> > >
> > http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
> > > <http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
> > >
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>
>
>
> --
> Nicholas Bentley
>
> L'Ecole de la Combe
> 26510 Rémuzat
> FRANCE
--
The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
alternatives.
Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p
Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU
KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens
The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by
http://www.ws-network.com/04_team.htm
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