[p2p-research] disagreement by deletion/addition BOOSTING MORAL

[Athina Karatzogianni]

Hi MIchel

This has been also my question and my motivation for writing on
cryptohierarchies.....

on your question 'Will new open spaces that emerge,
ALWAYS become co-opted by the old rules systems?  Will they
ALWAYS be forced (as they scale?) to adopt the old rules?'

I would go argue that to be co-opted means to be forced to take a 'reform'
attitutude to social change (see for example the reform wings in the global
social movements to reform global neoliberal institutions etc), a more
'gradual' change, like running two parallel systems, so  people would have
time to adjust,  often means that change is  more like 'improvement' or
'inclusion' on social conditions, not radical change, which truly upsets the
status quo in any way

i d say that is the politically correct style revolution!

the other option 'the truly radical revolutionary' change from one day to
the next is always crashing against the unwillingness of human nature, of
domestic governments and the hierarchical world system to adapt and to lose
and gain in the process, often met with violence or blockage, repression in
all social settings, internet non excluded as you know.

In other words, closure and fixity is always there to piss everyone off and
to enclose the open spaces we create. However the filights away from the
system smoothed and morphed as a result of these spaces are somehow i think
registered and provide the 'bad' examples for the new generation to follow
(if they get off their consumerist arses and do something eventually!)

its not my fault you asked..........

hope all is well!
athina





On Dec 6, 2007 5:31 PM, Paul B. Hartzog <paulbhartzog at gmail.com> wrote:

> conversation starter:
>
> Deletionism, or Disagreement by Deletion
>
> long time ago in my naive days
> Sunir Shah and I got talking about what was good about wikis.
>
> one of the key things was:
> 1) disagreement by deletion
> vs.
> 2) disagreement by addition
>
> DbD was the old-school political philosophy of exclusive practice,
> i.e. deciding who is "in" and who is "out"
>
> DbA was the new-school of pluralization, pluralism, and conversation,
> i.e. including perspectival acknowledgement as part of the process
>
> I actually used to lecture that this was a KEY reason why wikis are
> politically revolutionary, which is that by using DbA they
> 1) mesh with a multivocal world
> 2) function on inclusion instead of fragmentation (echo chamber)
>
> Now we see the "new" spaces, turning into "old" spaces
> by adopting the same rules as the old.
>
> Question:
> Is this a historical inevitability.  Will new open spaces that emerge,
> ALWAYS become co-opted by the old rules systems?  Will they
> ALWAYS be forced (as they scale?) to adopt the old rules?
>
> thoughts?
>
> -p
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.PaulBHartzog.org
> http://www.panarchy.com
> PaulBHartzog at PaulBHartzog.org
> PaulBHartzog at panarchy.com
> PHartzog at umich.edu
> --------------------------------------------------------
> The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms.
>                 --Muriel Rukeyser
>
> See differently, then you will act differently.
>                 --Paul B. Hartzog
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
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-- 
Dr Athina Karatzogianni
Lecturer in Media, Culture and Society
The University of Hull
United Kingdom
HU6 7RX

Check out Athina's work:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyberconflict-Routledge-Research-Information-Technology/dp/0415396840/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Power-Resistance-Conflict-Contemporary-World/dp/0415452988/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyber-conflict-Politics-Contemporary-Security-Studies/dp/0415459702/


Press interviews:

France:http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0,36-924253,0.html
Greece:http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text/c=112,id=78490200
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