[p2p-research] threat of wiki bio deletion

Sat Dec 1 16:54:54 CET 2007

Henrik, Sam: you guys are right, I had misread the date, sorry for that ...

Henrik, you are exactly right, and your proposal is very sensible. The issue
is that the deletionist have been creating artificial scarcities, and hence
have created a power base (in allocating scarce resources) for their
activities.

I've indicated some of the issues here at
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/abundance-vs-scarcity-some-distinctions/2007/11/25

In particular:

1)I see a first contradiction between accepting all contributions, but
outlawing quotes from websites and wiki's; granted that these are not
scientifically peer reviewed facts, but they are documentary evidence about
opinions and receptions of topics and ideas. This is a first scarcity.

2) the neutral point of view is something that not really exists, and a
recognition of different perspectives, which have to be fairly represented,
would have been better. This is a second scarcity
Apart from your view of multiple editions, I have my own proposal:

 - to have a separate page where the experts (say minimally with phd level)
can advise, but not decide, on the merits of the information. Giving the
experts power would crowd out the amateurs, but giving them an advisory role
may inspire the contributors,

Michel

On Dec 1, 2007 9:24 PM, Henrik Ingo <henrik.ingo at avoinelama.fi> wrote:

> Now that we have people here that follow Wikipedia more actively than
> me, it seems like a good opportunity to ask the question I've always
> wondered about:
>
> Is the issue of creating "editions" of Wikipedia often discussed? I
> mean the whole question of deletionism seems to me to be a
> misunderstanding of the opportunities created by an internet
> wikipedia. The problem deletionists try to solve is that of
> quality/trustability, they try to delete all such material that would
> not normally make it into a traditional encyclopedia, or at least
> material which can be suspected to be wrong or just poorly written.
> Yet, the great thing about wikipedia (or the internet in general) is
> that it is not a traditional encyclopedia - it can contain an infinite
> amount of information (why not have bio's of all of us there?) and be
> updated fast, rather than through a slow perfectionist process.
>
> It seems that the antagonists in the deletionist vs inclusionist
> debate have forgotten that they are dealing with an infinite medium,
> where all solutions ( -> forks) may co-exist. The sensible thing to do
> would be to have one "source" Wikipedia, which would strive for
> maximum inclusionism, and then have editions which strive for a
> certain treshold of quality, certain topics etc... (And there are
> mechanisms that can be implemented to make sure the original source is
> still efficiently re-used, the editions would be subsets of the
> inclusionist full wikipedia.)
>
> This would be similar to how Linux distributions work: Sourceforge and
> the internet in general will create an endlees supply of Open Source
> Software, and distributions are there to filter out the true gems for
> easy access to the greater public. Instead now the different camps in
> wikipedia seem to have gotten stuck on the idea of a one true
> wikipedia, and battling over how that should be governed.
>
> **
>
> I'm aware of Citizendium
> (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2006/sep/21/wikipedia.comment)
> and there also seems to be various Wikipedia editions for - say - PDA
> type of devices. But since the deletionists still seem to be so active
> in Wikipedia, it seems to me that this solution is not yet obvious to
> the majority of Wikipedians?
>
> Lastly, I should note that this is a solution that could be
> implemented by Wikipedia itself (as in, edited.wikipedia.org or
> similar) or it could be launched as a "deletionist fork" (which
> Citizendium seems to be?)
>
> henrik
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2007 11:43 AM, Tere Vadén <tere.vaden at uta.fi> wrote:
> > I *hate* deletionism. Arguing for deletion of articles on net theorists
> > because they have mainly published on the net is madness. Though, maybe,
> > it is mostly young males influenced by natural science and just learning
> > the skills of using references who represent the tendency. Hate the sin,
> > not the sinner, eh? I would love to see a ultra-inclusionist wikipedia
> > from which nothing but advertisement and illegal stuff would be deleted.
> >
> > In any case, I tried to improve the article by adding a little bit on
> > the CTheory article.
> >
> >
> > Michel Bauwens wrote:
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Michel_Bauwens
> > >
> > > Dear friends, it appears, unless I am mistaken, that there is a new
> > > deletionist attempt to take my bio off the wikipedia, which I think
> > > would be unfortunate, as it is often cited.
> > >
> > > May I appeal to your cooperation, as I can't do this myself, to
> support
> > > the noteworthyness of the page?
> > >
> > > I'm appealing especially to my academic friends in cc, since part of
> the
> > > motivation seems to be my exterior position to the acedemia.
> > >
> > > I think at this stage, since there is already a lot of supporting
> > > material in earlier discussions, some short statements against
> deletion,
> > > but motivated, would be sufficient,
> > >
> > > Many thanks for this,
> > > Michel Bauwens
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
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> at
> > >
> http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
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>
> --
> email: henrik.ingo at avoinelama.fi
> tel:   +358-40-5697354
> www:   www.avoinelama.fi/~hingo <http://www.avoinelama.fi/%7Ehingo>
> book:  www.openlife.cc
>
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-- 
The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
alternatives.

Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p

Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU

KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by
http://www.ws-network.com/04_team.htm
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