Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WwaQh-0004jV-R4 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:10:47 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.128.169 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.128.169; envelope-from=justusranvier@gmail.com; helo=mail-ve0-f169.google.com; Received: from mail-ve0-f169.google.com ([209.85.128.169]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1WwaQg-00014X-2A for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:10:47 +0000 Received: by mail-ve0-f169.google.com with SMTP id pa12so6540984veb.0 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2014 10:10:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.236.32.65 with SMTP id n41mr16252692yha.117.1402938640209; Mon, 16 Jun 2014 10:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.fuckthenavy.net ([198.203.28.43]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id k65sm21578603yhl.43.2014.06.16.10.10.36 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 16 Jun 2014 10:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.199.27] (unknown [207.244.76.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.fuckthenavy.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D5622201AA; Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:10:26 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <539F244C.2090009@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:07:24 +0000 From: Justus Ranvier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bitcoin Dev References: <87aaf81b20e17332175a3fbcd091c317.squirrel@fulvetta.riseup.net> <53959513.H7tOyQYvqT@crushinator> In-Reply-To: <53959513.H7tOyQYvqT@crushinator> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 OpenPGP: id=38450DB5; url=http://pool.sks-keyservers.net/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xC3F7BB2638450DB5 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040003040301030101040608" X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (justusranvier[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1WwaQg-00014X-2A Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Incentivizing the running of full nodes X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 17:10:48 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040003040301030101040608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/16/2014 04:25 PM, Matt Whitlock wrote: > How can there be any kind of lottery that doesn't involve proof of > work or proof of stake? Without some resource-limiting factor, > there is no way to limit the number of "lottery tickets" any given > individual could acquire. The very process of Bitcoin mining was > invented specifically to overcome the Sybil problem, which had > plagued computer scientists for decades, and now you're proposing a > system that suffers from the same problem. Or am I wrong about > this? If you allow the solution set to include pay-to-play networks, and not just free P2P networks, then it's easier to find a solution Imagine every node is competing with its peers in terms of relevancy. Relevancy is established by delivering newly-seen transactions first. Each node keeps track of which of its peers send it transactions that it hadn't seen and forwarded to them yet (making sure that the transactions do make it into a block) and uses that information to determine whether or not it should be paying that peer, or if that peer should be paying it, or if they are equal relevancy and no net payment is required. Once any given pair of nodes can establish who, if anyone, should be paying they could use micropayment channels to handle payments. Nodes that are well connected, and with high uptimes would end up being net recipients of payments. Mobile nodes and other low-uptime nodes would be net payers. Now that you've established a market for the service of delivering transaction information, you can rely on price signals to properly match supply and demand. People who hate market-based solutions could always run these nodes and configure them to refuse to pay anyone, and to charge nothing to their peers, if that's what they wanted. - -- Support online privacy by using email encryption whenever possible. 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