Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DCA7C002A for ; Tue, 9 May 2023 08:51:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E013F83BB2 for ; Tue, 9 May 2023 08:51:18 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org E013F83BB2 Authentication-Results: smtp1.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=op.pl header.i=@op.pl header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=2011 header.b=ZHG9+mS7 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pCEpi2WUCu_f for ; Tue, 9 May 2023 08:51:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 00:09:54 by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp1.osuosl.org E1DB183B9B Received: from smtpa40.poczta.onet.pl (smtpa40.poczta.onet.pl [213.180.142.40]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1DB183B9B for ; Tue, 9 May 2023 08:51:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pmq7v.m5r2.onet (pmq7v.m5r2.onet [10.174.35.192]) by smtp.poczta.onet.pl (Onet) with ESMTP id 4QFs7t2PlXzlgPxm; Tue, 9 May 2023 10:41:14 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=op.pl; s=2011; t=1683621674; bh=dFo5IZU8bnfLoFMTT18QhS1ft+rEhK9IM6CoHBj++P0=; h=From:To:Date:Subject:From; b=ZHG9+mS7vE9fLu0VOv3LzrVVyw2+4yUf2Xk8OdCGecsvv9XhX3VgJmkgiO0+Ch1PP l1cyzL3Jk8vCLWYh5WrS/J/9BAt9hMXCLTYV9AKa9bsqebg5LU1kWFDo2b0A1Kv/jG 9YrGnZhMSi+By/DQTOCeKtQTsEF4a2Kt3kzQtEhA= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received: from [89.64.64.233] by pmq7v.m5r2.onet via HTTP id ; Tue, 09 May 2023 10:41:14 +0200 From: jk_14@op.pl X-Priority: 3 To: "bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" Date: Tue, 09 May 2023 10:41:13 +0200 Message-Id: <183080646-e0c2bb9eaf62640f6c5d6c34f66db1d9@pmq7v.m5r2.onet> X-Mailer: onet.poczta X-Onet-PMQ: ;89.64.64.233;PL;3 X-ONET_PL-MDA-SEGREGATION: 0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 May 2023 12:23:30 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Mempool spam] Should we as developers reject non-standard Taproot transactions from full nodes? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 May 2023 08:51:19 -0000 Ok, I need to highlight one important thing well proven by this discussion = (like it or not)... Not the spam itself is the real reason of feeling: "something must be done" The reason is: $30 fee per transaction (I hope you all agree) Let me paraphrase some quotes used in this discussion, then: 1. Lack of block subsidy long term and necessity of $40 tx fee to compensat= e it - "threaten the smooth and normal use of the Bitcoin network as a peer= -to-pear digital currency, as it was intended to be used as." 2. "the harmony of Bitcoin transactions is being disrupted right now" due t= o lack of block subsidy and due to exorbitant $40 tx fees as an effect nece= ssary to keep the network security untouched 3. "Fee spikes aren't fun" and it's obvious that keeping the network securi= ty only on enormous tx fees of active users and having passive users as fre= e-riders - isn't fun, too 4. by ignoring Bitcoin long-term security budget problem - "we indirectly a= llowed this to happen, which previously wasn't possible before. So we also = have a responsibility to do something to ensure that this kind of tremendou= s $40 tx fees can never happen again" 5. "Action against exorbitant fees should have been taken months ago. (...)= It's a mistake that the" tail emission or other necessary solution - weren= 't implemented on time 6. "we need to find a solution for long-term horrible fees problem - that f= its everyone's common ground." Yes, we need - instead of being still in a heavy denial state. No additional comment then, except this little one: Delay of halving in case of 4 years long network difficulty regression situ= ation. Regards, Jaroslaw W dniu 2023-05-09 00:37:57 u=C5=BCytkownik Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev napisa=C5=82: Action should have been taken months ago. Spam filtration has been a standa= rd part of Bitcoin Core since day 1. It's a mistake that the existing filte= rs weren't extended to Taproot transactions. We can address that, or try a = more narrow approach like OP_RETURN (ie, what "Ordisrespector" does). Since= this is a bugfix, it doesn't really even need to wait for a major release. (We already have pruning. It's not an alternative to spam filtering.) Luke On 5/7/23 13:22, Ali Sherief via bitcoin-dev wrote: Hi guys, I think everyone on this list knows what has happened to the Bitcoin mempoo= l during the past 96 hours. Due to side projects such as BRC-20 having such= a high volume, real bitcoin transactions are being priced out and that is = what is causing the massive congestion that has arguable not been seen sinc= e December 2017. I do not count the March 2021 congestion because that was = only with 1-5sat/vbyte. Such justifiably worthless ("worthless" is not even my word - that's how it= s creator described them[1]) tokens threaten the smooth and normal use of t= he Bitcoin network as a peer-to-pear digital currency, as it was intended t= o be used as. If the volume does not die down over the next few weeks, should we take an = action? The bitcoin network is a triumvirate of developers, miners, and use= rs. Considering that miners are largely the entities at fault for allowing = the system to be abused like this, the harmony of Bitcoin transactions is b= eing disrupted right now. Although this community has a strong history of n= ot putting its fingers into pies unless absolutely necessary - an example b= eing during the block size wars and Segwit - should similar action be taken= now, in the form of i) BIPs and/or ii) commits into the Bitcoin Core codeb= ase, to curtail the loophole in BIP 342 (which defines the validation rules= for Taproot scripts) which has allowed these unintended consequences? An alternative would be to enforce this "censorship" at the node level and = introduce a run-time option to instantly prune all non-standard Taproot tra= nsactions. This will be easier to implement, but won't hit the road until m= inimum next release. I know that some people will have their criticisms about this, absolutists/= libertarians/maximum-freedom advocates, which is fine, but we need to find = a solution for this that fits everyone's common ground. We indirectly allow= ed this to happen, which previously wasn't possible before. So we also have= a responsibility to do something to ensure that this kind of congestion ca= n never happen again using Taproot. -Ali --- [1]:=C2=A0https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/05/05/pump-the-b= rcs-the-promise-and-peril-of-bitcoin-backed-tokens/ _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev