Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194]
	helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
	by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <mark@monetize.io>) id 1WSBw1-0005U2-KM
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:57:29 +0000
Received: from mail-pa0-f51.google.com ([209.85.220.51])
	by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76) id 1WSBw0-000835-8A
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:57:29 +0000
Received: by mail-pa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id kq14so5989256pab.38
	for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
	Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:57:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
	d=1e100.net; s=20130820;
	h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent
	:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type
	:content-transfer-encoding;
	bh=jH7yh8ao1Ye33I9V43Qs9wUiESPm1eaZ7+l5NpGvZgM=;
	b=h/B7tC0AOEih9TTYu/gGjCc2xK5I+booqRJBnqzuQKxbYvsMXPhwntg4pnazft6dqd
	c2os/TSPCvfZANIo1+3RuwWkmM70LGwJdvoxD1bdpl4wp2r8ane+ExE2c6gC9w3+11HF
	XJJwYgnmQ0Wf87Yo/TLi5XyNmawejhuu1SrFtrWSfcuiAt3/fAgsiNQyUkAvcvcuy76T
	nKkMYv7CKNDYcxMzvYUeizFI8O+yupJpDNBOQMq5INGEe3lbWIJoTXRDDPwHgXVuMccX
	XPO7xw9HmBNvFUUdksDY5zZE3rg8hBtbaxu0umnFU9mHhcDPy/GqwiLH3yDKxCstt89y
	lOOw==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn3BascNeuL6frGT1UqQhFGiRGf8g4ZqoC48o6TABIN8dUprLKUmZdvg9B/iaVFG/5p2rOF
X-Received: by 10.66.177.168 with SMTP id cr8mr11403330pac.128.1395694642260; 
	Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:57:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.127.187] (50-0-36-93.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net.
	[50.0.36.93]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id
	op3sm35258062pbc.40.2014.03.24.13.57.15 for <multiple recipients>
	(version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
	Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:57:21 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <53309C2A.4040406@monetize.io>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:57:14 -0700
From: Mark Friedenbach <mark@monetize.io>
Organization: Monetize.io Inc.
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
	rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@hozed.org>
References: <20140322084702.GA13436@savin>
	<CAC1+kJNh=7yhmAdFHFv9VBJOOMhen6nwr=U9peG2J_7EovPqxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140322193435.GC6047@savin>
	<CAC1+kJNOuCpUPDiaBNR40T12W3MwUXpXp+PCTLhHyQwyc+8BqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140323231737.GM3180@nl.grid.coop> <532F740C.9010800@monetize.io>
	<20140324203403.GR3180@nl.grid.coop>
In-Reply-To: <20140324203403.GR3180@nl.grid.coop>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
	See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
X-Headers-End: 1WSBw0-000835-8A
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for
 embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:57:29 -0000

On 03/24/2014 01:34 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> I'm here because I want to sell corn for bitcoin, and I believe it will be
> more profitable for me to do that with a bitcoin-blockchain-based system
> in which I have the capability to audit the code that executes the trade.

A discussion over such a system would be on-topic. Indeed I have made my
own proposals for systems with that capability in the past:

http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/31322676/

There's no reason to invoke alts however. There are ways where this can
be done within the bitcoin ecosystem, using bitcoins:

http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/32108143/

> I think that's fair, so long as we limit bitcoin-development discussion to
> issues that are relevant to the owners of the hashrate and companies that
> pay developer salaries.
> 
> What I'm asking for is some honesty that Bitcoin is a centralized system
> and to stop arguing technical points on the altar of distributed/decentralized
> whatever. It's pretty clear if you want decentralized you should go with 
> altchains.

Bitcoin is not a centralized system, and neither is its development. I
don't even know how to respond to that. Bringing up altchains is a total
red herring.

This is *bitcoin*-development. Please don't make it have to become a
moderated mailing list.