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From: Billy Tetrud <billy.tetrud@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 10:31:17 -0500
Message-ID: <CAGpPWDbHUqf5_APr3e_hr7npo=ObJvLuWooJc5azMDCDOVSfOA@mail.gmail.com>
To: alicexbt <alicexbt@protonmail.com>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000015f66f05deaa0558"
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Improving BIP 8 soft fork activation
Precedence: list

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I think this is a useful proposal. There are certainly things about BIP9
that BIP8 fixes. I believe taproot's speedy trial did kind of a hybrid, but
a BIP spec was never produced for it afaik. A possibly unhelpful comment:

> minimum_activation_height

I think a minor improvement would be to specify this as
minimum_activation_blocks, ie a number of blocks passed the start_height.
Slightly easier to reason about and change when necessary. I proposed
semantics like that here
<https://github.com/fresheneesz/bip-trinary-version-signaling/blob/master/bip-trinary-version-bits.md>
.

In any case, I'll give this a concept ACK. I would very much like future
soft forks to use a previously specified activation mechanism rather than
rolling out a rushed unspeced thing as part of the (very orthogonal) soft
fork implementation.

On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 9:02 AM alicexbt via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hi Bitcoin Developers,
>
> There were some disagreements with speedy trial activation method recently
> and BIP 8 became controversial because of LOT earlier. I have tried to
> solve these two problems after reading some arguments for/against different
> activation methods by removing LOT from BIP 8 and calculating MUST_SIGNAL
> state based on threshold reached.
>
> BIP draft with no code and some changes in BIP 8:
> https://gist.github.com/1440000bytes/5e58cad7ba9d9c1a7000d304920fe6f1
>
> State transitions diagram: https://i.imgur.com/dj4bFVK.png
>
> This proposal removes lockinontimeout flag, activation never fails
> although MUST_SIGNAL can be longer if miners signaling does not reach the
> threshold. Longer period for MUST_SIGNAL state is useful for coordination
> if LOCKED_IN was not reached.
>
> MUST_SIGNAL = ((100-t)/10)*2016 blocks, where t is threshold reached and
> blocks that fail to signal in MUST_SIGNAL phase are invalid.
>
> Example:
>
> - This activation method is used for a soft fork
> - Only 60% miners signaled readiness and timeout height was reached
> - MUST_SIGNAL phase starts and will last for 4*2016 blocks
> - LOCKED_IN and ACTIVE states remain same as BIP 8
> - Soft fork is activated with a delay of 2 months
>
>
> /dev/fd0
>
> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> secure email.
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I think this is a useful proposal. There are certainly thi=
ngs about BIP9 that BIP8 fixes. I believe taproot&#39;s speedy=C2=A0trial d=
id kind of a hybrid, but a BIP spec was never produced for it afaik. A poss=
ibly unhelpful comment:<div><br></div>&gt; minimum_activation_height <div><=
br></div>I think a minor improvement would be to specify this as minimum_ac=
tivation_blocks, ie a number of blocks passed=C2=A0the start_height. Slight=
ly easier to reason about and change when necessary. I proposed semantics l=
ike that <a href=3D"https://github.com/fresheneesz/bip-trinary-version-sign=
aling/blob/master/bip-trinary-version-bits.md" target=3D"_blank">here</a>.=
=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>In any case, I&#39;ll give this a concept ACK. I =
would very much like future soft forks to use a previously specified activa=
tion mechanism rather than rolling out a rushed unspeced thing as part of t=
he (very orthogonal) soft fork implementation.</div></div><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, May 10, 2022 at=
 9:02 AM alicexbt via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.l=
inuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
<div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">Hi Bitcoin Developers,<br>
<br>
There were some disagreements with speedy trial activation method recently =
and BIP 8 became controversial because of LOT earlier. I have tried to solv=
e these two problems after reading some arguments for/against different act=
ivation methods by removing LOT from BIP 8 and calculating MUST_SIGNAL stat=
e based on threshold reached.<br>
<br>
BIP draft with no code and some changes in BIP 8:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://g=
ist.github.com/1440000bytes/5e58cad7ba9d9c1a7000d304920fe6f1" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://gist.github.com/1440000bytes/5e58cad7ba9d9c1a7000d304920fe6f1<=
/a><br>
<br>
State transitions diagram:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://i.imgur.com/dj4bFVK.png"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://i.imgur.com/dj4bFVK.png</a><br>
<br>
This proposal removes lockinontimeout flag, activation never fails although=
 MUST_SIGNAL can be longer if miners signaling does not reach the threshold=
. Longer period for MUST_SIGNAL state is useful for coordination if LOCKED_=
IN was not reached.<br>
<br>
MUST_SIGNAL =3D ((100-t)/10)*2016 blocks, where t is threshold reached and =
blocks that fail to signal in MUST_SIGNAL phase are invalid.<br>
<br>
Example:=C2=A0<br>
<br>
- This activation method is used for a soft fork=C2=A0<br>
- Only 60% miners signaled readiness and timeout height was reached<br>
- MUST_SIGNAL phase starts and will last for 4*2016 blocks<br>
- LOCKED_IN and ACTIVE states remain same as BIP 8<br>
- Soft fork is activated with a delay of 2 months</div><div style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial;font-size:14px"><br>
<br>
/dev/fd0<br><br>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">
    <div>

            </div>

            <div>
        Sent with <a href=3D"https://protonmail.com/" rel=3D"noopener noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">ProtonMail</a> secure email.
    </div>
</div>
</div>_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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