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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 11:55:50 -0400
Message-ID: <CABsx9T3FoErEeOtQcnK62WK=zOBREwRkxzDNLDniuvM+L5Shiw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com>
To: Bryan Bishop <kanzure@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11345984cbad0d051c19bc42
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why Satoshi's temporary anti-spam measure
	isn'ttemporary
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On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Because any decentralized system is going to have high transaction costs
> and scarcity anyway.


This is a meme that keeps coming up that I think just isn't true.

What other decentralized systems can we look at as role models?

How decentralized are they?

And why did they succeed when "more efficient" centralized systems did not?


The Internet is the most successful decentralized system to date; what
lessons should we learn?

How decentralized is the technology of the Internet (put aside governance
and the issues of who-assigns-blocks-of-IPs-and-registers-domain-names)?
How many root DNS servers?  How many BGP routers along the backbone would
need to be compromised to disrupt traffic? Why don't we see more
disruptions, or why are people willing to tolerate the disruptions that DO
happen?

And how did the Internet out-compete more efficient centralized systems
from the big telecom companies?  (I remember some of the arguments that
unreliable, inefficient packet-switching would never replace dedicated
circuits that couldn't get congested and didn't have inefficient timeouts
and retransmissions)


What other successful or unsuccessful decentralized systems should we be
looking at?


I'm old-- I graduated from college in 1988, so I've worked in tech through
the entire rise of the Internet. The lessons I believe we should take away
is that a system doesn't have to be perfect to be successful, and we
shouldn't underestimate people's ability to innovate around what might seem
to be insurmountable problems, IF people are given the ability to innovate.

Yes, people will innovate within a 1MB (or 1MB-scaling-to-2MB by 2021) max
block size, and yes, smaller blocks have utility. But I think we'll get a
lot more innovation and utility without such small, artificial limits.

-- 
--
Gavin Andresen

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
hu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex">Because any decentralized system is going to have =
high transaction costs and scarcity anyway.</blockquote></div><br>This is a=
 meme that keeps coming up that I think just isn&#39;t true.</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">What other decentral=
ized systems can we look at as role models?</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"=
><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">How decentralized are they?</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">And why did the=
y succeed when &quot;more efficient&quot; centralized systems did not?</div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">The Internet is the most successful decentralize=
d system to date; what lessons should we learn?</div><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">How decentralized is the technolo=
gy of the Internet (put aside governance and the issues of who-assigns-bloc=
ks-of-IPs-and-registers-domain-names)? How many root DNS servers?=C2=A0 How=
 many BGP routers along the backbone would need to be compromised to disrup=
t traffic? Why don&#39;t we see more disruptions, or why are people willing=
 to tolerate the disruptions that DO happen?</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">And how did the Internet out-compete=
 more efficient centralized systems from the big telecom companies? =C2=A0(=
I remember some of the arguments that unreliable, inefficient packet-switch=
ing would never replace dedicated circuits that couldn&#39;t get congested =
and didn&#39;t have inefficient timeouts and retransmissions)<br><div><br><=
/div><div><br></div><div>What other successful or unsuccessful decentralize=
d systems should we be looking at?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>=
I&#39;m old-- I graduated from college in 1988, so I&#39;ve worked in tech =
through the entire rise of the Internet. The lessons I believe we should ta=
ke away is that a system doesn&#39;t have to be perfect to be successful, a=
nd we shouldn&#39;t underestimate people&#39;s ability to innovate around w=
hat might seem to be insurmountable problems, IF people are given the abili=
ty to innovate.</div><div><br></div><div>Yes, people will innovate within a=
 1MB (or 1MB-scaling-to-2MB by 2021) max block size, and yes, smaller block=
s have utility. But I think we&#39;ll get a lot more innovation and utility=
 without such small, artificial limits.</div><div><br></div>-- <br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_signature">--<br>Gavin Andresen<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_si=
gnature"><br></div>
</div></div>

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