Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WcvcT-0006Bl-KP for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:45:41 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.219.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.42; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com; helo=mail-oa0-f42.google.com; Received: from mail-oa0-f42.google.com ([209.85.219.42]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1WcvcR-0005Nh-T0 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:45:41 +0000 Received: by mail-oa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id i4so874989oah.29 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 04:45:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.176.9 with SMTP id ce9mr7063990oec.55.1398253534583; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 04:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.96.180 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 04:45:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201404231239.20202.andyparkins@gmail.com> References: <201404231057.54387.andyparkins@gmail.com> <201404231239.20202.andyparkins@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 13:45:34 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: FCtStI4c3BN3aHJh6o1N8DfYKkU Message-ID: From: Mike Hearn To: Andy Parkins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0118226c3c232704f7b445f5 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mh.in.england[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1WcvcR-0005Nh-T0 Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Coinbase reallocation to discourage Finney attacks X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:45:41 -0000 --089e0118226c3c232704f7b445f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > You're still being unfair to bitcoin. Not everyone who uses bitcoins will > be dishonest. The dishonest 5% hashing power is not going to be used in > 100% of any given merchants transactions. > OK, sure, let's say most Bitcoin users will be honest (we hope). But unfortunately in a situation where fraud is possible users wouldn't necessarily distribute evenly over transactions. Back when I worked on Gmail, we did a little study where we selected a random subset of email accounts from Nigeria and waited to see if they received abuse reports, showed up on dating site blacklists etc. It turned out about 2/3rds of them did. This obviously doesn't imply that 2/3rds of all Nigerians are scammers, but unfortunately the few that are are responsible for a disproportionate number of account creations. If a merchant is selling something of value repeatedly, then a small number of scammers can go back and try their luck over and over. I'm not sure how many trades fall into such an exploitable category, though. Also, there's the philosophical question of how honest people really are when there's no consequences to their actions. For instance, if most people were honest, then piracy would be not a big problem. But game studios that have cracked DRM quite often report piracy rates of 95%, i.e. for every 5 sales they make, they get 100 people playing on their servers - the vast majority of their users are not honest. --089e0118226c3c232704f7b445f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You're still being unfair to= bitcoin. =C2=A0Not everyone who uses bitcoins will
be dishonest. =C2=A0The dishonest 5% hashing power is not going to be used = in
100% of any given merchants transactions.

OK, sure, let's say most Bitcoin users will be honest (we hope). But= unfortunately in a situation where fraud is possible users wouldn't ne= cessarily distribute evenly over transactions.

Back when I worked on Gmail, we did a little study wher= e we selected a random subset of email accounts from Nigeria and waited to = see if they received abuse reports, showed up on dating site blacklists etc= . It turned out about 2/3rds of them did. This obviously doesn't imply = that 2/3rds of all Nigerians are scammers, but unfortunately the few that a= re are responsible for a disproportionate number of account creations.

If a merchant is selling something of value repeatedly,= then a small number of scammers can go back and try their luck over and ov= er. I'm not sure how many trades fall into such an exploitable category= , though.

Also, there's the philosophical question of how hon= est people really are when there's no consequences to their actions. Fo= r instance, if most people were honest, then piracy would be not a big prob= lem. But game studios that have cracked DRM quite often report piracy rates= of 95%, i.e. for every 5 sales they make, they get 100 people playing on t= heir servers - the vast majority of their users are not honest.

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