Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DDB9710 for ; Thu, 10 May 2018 07:54:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-1857040132.protonmail.ch (mail-1857040132.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.132]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 590AC67F for ; Thu, 10 May 2018 07:54:11 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 03:54:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=default; t=1525938848; bh=Ft4cDQoAInNJszmnhpr2Rp4Q9oBTWd8BL9RmJejtOV8=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From; b=wA+mzWSJLQ5gCZUPNRjGHG7UyqAgq+YLPvlhdUPazvb5RBL2efJMI1gZX1buYgekr XPazLg9gAyXttbLsrqiokDvTRpTOfNcVERSSYwTQW4bWljS1ed3UEWoNhE/YEcbJ33 xejm79a3g0+TXw9LXDZH1OkIIP9zBQhbWcU8zIAI= To: =?UTF-8?B?44Ki44Or44Og44CA44Kr44O844Or44Oo44OP44Oz?= , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion From: ZmnSCPxj Reply-To: ZmnSCPxj Message-ID: <_6k3Kpt3N-IRVmNM9aZGd-8xDvIIkkhtvx5b6Tm_iMeM5McYwgNRCbO2Uerv2A7Bjpc84PQ35XPoexb9Oe-OgZ2tjW4733rVZ1L2mfnu-I8=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: Feedback-ID: el4j0RWPRERue64lIQeq9Y2FP-mdB86tFqjmrJyEPR9VAtMovPEo9tvgA0CrTsSHJeeyPXqnoAu6DN-R04uJUg==:Ext:ProtonMail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 10 May 2018 12:45:10 +0000 Cc: Segue <012mistery@frankentrikes.com> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why not archive the backend of Bitcoin blockchain? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 07:54:12 -0000 Good morning karl and Segue, Specifically for c-lightning, we are not yet rated for pruned bitcoind use,= although if you installed and started running bitcoind before installing t= he lightningd, caught up to the chain, and then installed lightningd and se= t things up so that bitcoind will get killed if lightningd stops running (s= o that bitcoind will "never" leave lightningd too far behind). Officially though pruned bitcoind is not supported for c-lightning, so loss= of funds due to doing the above idea is entirely your fault. On the topic of such a "chapter-based" archiving, it needs to get implement= ed and reviewed. As-is I see no reason why it cannot be done, but I think = the details are far more important. 1. How do we select the archive servers? 2. How can we ensure that no chapter has only a small number of actual own= ers who could easily coordinate to deny access to historical blockchain dat= a to those they deem undesirable? Regards, ZmnSCPxj =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On May 10, 2018 2:48 PM, =E3=82=A2=E3=83=AB=E3=83=A0=E3=80=80=E3=82=AB= =E3=83=BC=E3=83=AB=E3=83=A8=E3=83=8F=E3=83=B3 via bitcoin-dev wrote: > He can use pruning to only store the last X MB of the blockchain. It >=20 > will store the UTXO set though, which is a couple of GBs. In total, a >=20 > pruned node with pruning set to 1000 MB ends up using 4.5 GB >=20 > currently, but it varies slightly due to the # of UTXOs in existence. >=20 > On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 9:56 AM, Segue via bitcoin-dev >=20 > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote: >=20 > > On 3/17/18, someone posted on the Lightning-dev list, "Can I try Lightn= ing > >=20 > > without running a fully-fledged bitcoin block chain? (Yubin Ruan)." The > >=20 > > inquirer was asking because he didn't have much space to store the enti= re > >=20 > > blockchain on his laptop. > >=20 > > I replied: > >=20 > > "Developers, > >=20 > > On THIS note and slightly off-topic but relevant, why can't chunks of > >=20 > > blockchain peel off the backend periodically and be archived, say on mi= nimum > >=20 > > of 150 computers across 7 continents? > >=20 > > It seems crazy to continue adding on to an increasingly long chain to > >=20 > > infinity if the old chapters (i.e. more than, say, 2 years old) could b= e > >=20 > > stored in an evenly distributed manner across the planet. The same 150 > >=20 > > computers would not need to store every chapter either, just the index = would > >=20 > > need to be widely distributed in order to reconnect with a chapter if > >=20 > > needed. Then maybe it is no longer a limitation in the future for peopl= e > >=20 > > like Yubin. " > >=20 > > It was suggested by a couple of lightning developers that I post this i= dea > >=20 > > on the bitcoin-dev list. So, here I post :). > >=20 > > Segue > >=20 > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > >=20 > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > >=20 > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >=20 > bitcoin-dev mailing list >=20 > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >=20 > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev