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From: Zheming Lin <heater@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CADvTj4o-Jv2=VZ-+KeSiWTR6av-fGgJuxxWnsckFY=L7Ff0yUA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 16:13:58 +0800
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	<CADvTj4pu8LbETyduWj__U2txyvqZD9B8FFmLDPSiM4t+pTSuZQ@mail.gmail.com>
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To: James Hilliard <james.hilliard1@gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Demonstration of Phase in Full Network
 Upgrade Activated by Miners
Precedence: list


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Hi James:

> =D4=DA 2017=C4=EA6=D4=C213=C8=D5=A3=AC15:19=A3=ACJames Hilliard =
<james.hilliard1@gmail.com> =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA
>=20
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 1:50 AM, Zheming Lin <heater@gmail.com =
<mailto:heater@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Hi James:
>>=20
>> Thank you very much for detailed feedback. Sorry for my understanding =
of
>> English being poor. I=A1=AFll try to answer that.
>>=20
>>=20
>> =D4=DA 2017=C4=EA6=D4=C213=C8=D5=A3=AC13:44=A3=ACJames Hilliard =
<james.hilliard1@gmail.com> =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA
>>=20
>>=20
>> 1. The activation only requires majority miners signal. As described =
in the
>> paper by Satoshi Nakamoto, 55% miners will be in the longest chain =
after 340
>> blocks, with 99.9% certainty. This will minimize the possibility of =
delaying
>> network upgrades by controlling a small number of hashing power. We =
can
>> foresee that after 51% signalling, all miners will upgrade within the =
first
>> grace period. <br/>
>>=20
>> Technically soft forks can be implemented at 55% hashpower already
>> without an orphaning period(like BIP16). Those that don't upgrade
>> would just be at risk of mining invalid blocks. One would not want to
>> use this method to try and activate a controversial hard fork since
>> it's trivial for miners to false signal. The orphaning period
>> effectively forces miners to make a decision but does not necessarily
>> force them to make a particular decision since they can simply choose
>> to reject the fork and false signal.
>>=20
>>=20
>> =
=BC=D9=D0=C5=BA=C5=B5=C4=CE=CA=CC=E2=D4=DA=CE=D2=BF=B4=C0=B4=CE=DE=B7=A8=BD=
=E2=BE=F6=A1=A3=B5=AB=C8=E7=B9=FB=B6=E0=CA=FD=B2=BB=CD=AC=D2=E2=D5=E2=B8=F6=
=B8=C4=B1=E4=A3=AC=CE=AA=CA=B2=C3=B4=CB=FB=C3=C7=BB=B9=D2=AA=C6=DB=C6=AD=A3=
=BF=C8=E7=B9=FB=B6=E0=CA=FD=C8=E7=D6=D0=B1=BE=B4=CF=B9=B2=CA=B6=D6=D0=C3=E8=
=CA=F6=B5=C4=C4=C7=D1=F9=CA=C7=B3=CF=CA=B5=BF=C9=D0=C5=B5=C4=A3=AC=C4=C7=BE=
=CD=B2=BB=BB=E1=D3=D0=C8=CE=BA=CE=CE=CA=CC=E2=A1=A3=CD=A8=B9=FD=CB=E3=C1=A6=
=D7=DC=C4=DC=B7=D6=B3=F6=CA=A4=B8=BA=A1=A3
>> False signal can=A1=AFt be solved in my opinion. If the majority part =
just don=A1=AFt
>> agree with the change, why they cheat? If the majority part is honest =
as
>> described in nakamoto consensus, I think that won=A1=AFt be a =
problem. CPU power
>> always decides.
>=20
> Nakamoto consensus is used to determine the longest chain among
> multiple valid chains, it's not enough to determine validity by
> itself. For example in a hard fork if a minority of hashpower decided
> not to fork then they would simply consider the forked chain invalid
> and ignore it, even if that majority chain had significantly more
> work.
>=20

=
=BD=DA=B5=E3=D0=E8=D2=AA=D7=D4=D6=F7=BE=F6=B6=A8=CA=C7=B7=F1=B8=FA=CB=E6=D0=
=AD=D2=E9=C9=FD=BC=B6=A1=A3=B5=AB=CA=C7=CB=FB=C3=C7=B2=BB=C4=DC=B1=BB=B6=AF=
=B5=C4=CA=B2=C3=B4=B6=BC=B2=BB=D7=F6=A1=A3=CB=FB=C3=C7=D7=DC=CA=C7=B4=E6=D4=
=DA=D3=D0=B6=E0=D6=D6=B5=C4=D1=A1=D4=F1=A1=A3
The node should decide to follow the protocol upgrade or not. But they =
can=A1=AFt just be passive and do nothing. The choice is always =
provided.

=C8=E7=B9=FB=CB=FB=C3=C7=B2=A2=B2=BB=CF=E0=D0=C5=B4=F3=B6=E0=CA=FD=B5=C4=BF=
=F3=B9=A4=A3=AC=CB=FB=C3=C7=BF=C9=D2=D4=D1=A1=D4=F1=D2=BB=D0=A9=C3=BB=D3=D0=
=BF=F3=B9=A4=BD=C7=C9=AB=B5=C4=CC=E6=B4=FA=B1=D2=A1=A3
If they don=A1=AFt trust the choice of majority miners, they can use =
some alt coin that don=A1=AFt including miners=A1=AF part.

>>=20
>>=20
>> 2. During the first two grace periods, non-mining nodes will not be
>> affected. They have enough time to upgrade their software. <br/>
>> 3. Versionbits included in block header, not influencing the SPY =
mining.
>> <br/>
>>=20
>> The widely deployed stratum based SPV mining does not really provide =
a
>> proper way to validate nversion of the previous block, it only lets
>> you see the nversion of the current stratum job since you don't get a
>> full bock header. There's always a risk here that miners build on top
>> of invalid blocks when SPV mining.
>>=20
>>=20
>> =D2=B2=D0=ED=CE=D2=CA=C7=B4=ED=B5=C4=CE=D2=B2=A2=B2=BB=BF=CF=B6=A8=A1=A3=
=C7=EB=B6=D4=C8=E7=BA=CE=C8=C3=D5=E2=B8=F6=B7=BD=B7=A8=BC=E6=C8=DD SPY =
=CD=DA=BF=F3=CC=E1=B3=F6=BD=A8=C9=E8=D0=D4=D2=E2=BC=FB=A1=A3
>> Maybe I=A1=AFm wrong. Please give some advice that how to make it =
compatible with
>> SPY mining.
>=20
> It's just problematic in general and I'm not sure there's a good way
> around it other than putting as many safety nets as possible in place
> to limit the amount of time miners mine on invalid work. For example
> when an invalid BU blocks was mined on the network more than 50% of
> hashpower mined on top of it for a short period of time.
>=20

=CE=D2=C3=C7=D3=A6=B5=B1=D2=FD=C8=EB=C7=F8=BF=E9=D0=A3=D1=E9=A3=AC=B5=AB=C8=
=E7=BA=CE=CE=AA=B2=BB=D1=E9=D6=A4=BD=F8=D0=D0 SPY =
=CD=DA=BF=F3=B5=C4=BF=F3=B9=A4=CC=E1=B9=A9=BC=A4=C0=F8=CA=C7=C1=ED=CD=E2=D2=
=BB=B8=F6=CE=CA=CC=E2=C1=CB=A1=A3
We should introduce block validation in the code, but how to provide =
incentive to no-validating SPY miner is another problem.


>>=20
>> 4. After two grace periods, all nodes must be upgraded. Otherwise =
they
>> cannot send transactions or get any confirmations. Compared with =
forming new
>> consensus among nodes, the situation is not worse than before. <br/>
>>=20
>> Previous consensus changes have largely been done in backwards
>> compatible ways which lets users opt-in to new features. In general
>> backwards compatibility is considered a good thing, this seems to =
make
>> that worse.
>>=20
>>=20
>> =
=D5=E2=B2=A2=C3=BB=D3=D0=C7=BF=D6=C6=CE=D2=C3=C7=B5=C4=BD=DA=B5=E3=D7=F7=B3=
=F6=C8=CE=BA=CE=B8=C4=B1=E4=B9=B2=CA=B6=B5=C4=B1=ED=CA=BE=A1=A3=BD=F6=BD=F6=
=C8=C3=D5=E2=D0=A9=BD=DA=B5=E3=CE=AA=BD=D3=CF=C2=C0=B4=BF=C9=C4=DC=B5=C4=B8=
=C4=B1=E4=D7=F6=BA=C3=D7=BC=B1=B8=A1=A3
>> It would not force our nodes to do anything that changes the =
consensus. But
>> they should be prepared for the **maybe** upcoming changes.
>> =
=D0=AD=D2=E9=B5=C4=B8=C4=B1=E4=BD=AB=CD=A8=B9=FD=BF=F3=B9=A4=CD=B6=C6=B1=B2=
=FA=C9=FA=A3=AC=B5=AB=CA=C7=D5=E2=B8=F6=B9=FD=B3=CC=D3=A6=B8=C3=B1=BB=CB=F9=
=D3=D0=BD=DA=B5=E3=CB=F9=D6=AA=CF=FE=B2=A2=B3=D0=C8=CF=A1=A3
>> Protocol upgrades could be done using miners vote. but the progress =
of
>> voting should be acknowledged by all nodes.
>=20
> I'm not seeing how it could be considered backwards compatible if
> "they cannot send transactions or get any confirmations=A1=B1.

=
=CE=D2=B2=A2=B2=BB=B0=D1=D5=E2=B8=F6=B7=BD=B7=A8=BF=B4=D7=F7=CA=C7=CD=EA=C8=
=AB=B5=C4=CF=F2=BA=F3=BC=E6=C8=DD=A1=A3=D4=DA=B4=F3=BC=D2=B6=BC=C8=CF=BF=C9=
=A1=B0=C7=F8=BF=E9=B8=DF=B6=C8xxx=BA=F3=A3=AC=D6=B4=D0=D0xxx=A1=B1=B5=C4=CA=
=B1=BA=F2=A3=AC=CE=D2=B2=A2=B2=BB=C8=CF=CE=AA=D5=E2=BA=DC=D6=D8=D2=AA=A1=A3=

I don=A1=AFt see them as completely backwards compatible. since I don=A1=AF=
t see that is important if we all agree with =A1=B0after block height =
xxx, then xxx=A1=B1.
=CE=D2=C3=C7=D2=C0=C8=BB=BF=C9=D2=D4=B4=D3=B4=B4=CA=C0=C7=F8=BF=E9=BF=AA=CA=
=BC=D2=BB=D6=B1=D1=E9=D6=A4=B5=BD=BD=F1=CC=EC=A1=A3
And we can validate from the genesis block till today.


>>=20
>>=20
>> 5. The ledger in non-mining wallet nodes is honored and reserved. =
Users of
>> off-chain wallet services can decide whether or not to follow the =
service
>> providers after they got the public notification from the service =
providers.
>> <br/>
>> 6. Protocol upgrades in the future can be bonded with the upgrades of =
nodes,
>> and the upgrades activate through miners vote independently. There =
would be
>> enough time for nodes to be upgraded in order to support new =
protocols. Even
>> in case of failing in miner activation, the situation will not worsen =
and
>> the status quo will remain. <br/>
>>=20
>>=20
>> =3D=3DRisks=3D=3D
>>=20
>> 1. =
=CB=E3=C1=A6=B5=C4=B2=A8=B6=AF=BB=E1=D3=B0=CF=EC=D7=EE=B3=A4=C1=B4=B5=C4=BD=
=E1=B9=FB=A1=A3=D2=F2=B4=CB=D4=BD=B8=DF=B5=C4=BC=A4=BB=EE=B1=C8=C0=FD=D2=AA=
=C7=F3=BD=AB=BC=F5=C9=D9=B6=CC=CA=B1=BC=E4=B7=D6=B2=E6=B5=C4=CE=A3=CF=D5=A1=
=A3<br/>
>> 2. =
=BF=F3=B9=A4=BF=C9=C4=DC=B7=A2=BC=D9=D0=C5=BA=C5=C0=B4=B1=DC=C3=E2=B1=BB=B9=
=C2=C1=A2=A3=AC=B5=AB=D4=DA=C7=AE=B0=FC=BD=DA=B5=E3=BF=B4=C0=B4=CE=DE=B7=A8=
=C7=F8=B7=D6=CA=C7=B7=F1=CA=C7=BC=D9=D0=C5=BA=C5=A3=AC=D6=BB=C4=DC=C9=FD=BC=
=B6=A1=A3=B6=F8=C7=AE=B0=FC=BD=DA=B5=E3=C9=FD=BC=B6=D6=AE=BA=F3=A3=AC=BF=F3=
=B9=A4=D2=B2=BD=AB=B8=FA=CB=E6=A1=A3<br/>
>> 3. =
=C7=AE=B0=FC=BD=DA=B5=E3=BF=C9=C4=DC=B7=A2=BC=D9=D0=C5=BA=C5=C0=B4=BD=F6=C9=
=FD=BC=B6=B0=E6=B1=BE=BA=C5=B6=F8=B2=BB=D6=A7=B3=D6=B0=F3=B6=A8=B5=C4=D0=AD=
=D2=E9=C9=FD=BC=B6=B4=FA=C2=EB=A3=AC=B5=AB=C7=AE=B0=FC=BD=DA=B5=E3=CA=FD=C1=
=BF=CE=DE=B7=A8=C5=D0=B1=F0=A3=AC=D1=CF=CB=E0=B5=C4=D5=E6=CA=B5=BD=DA=B5=E3=
=D3=A6=B5=B1=B8=FA=CB=E6=BF=C9=D6=A4=CA=B5=B5=C4=BF=F3=B9=A4=CD=B6=C6=B1=BD=
=E1=B9=FB=A1=A3<br/>
>> 4.
>> =
=B4=E6=D4=DA=C9=D9=B2=BF=B7=D6=BF=F3=B9=A4=BA=CD=C7=AE=B0=FC=BD=DA=B5=E3=B9=
=B2=C4=B1=A3=AC=D4=DA=D0=C2=D0=AD=D2=E9=C9=FD=BC=B6=BC=A4=BB=EE=BA=F3=D2=C0=
=C8=BB=CA=B9=D3=C3=C0=CF=D0=AD=D2=E9=CD=DA=BF=F3=B5=C4=BF=C9=C4=DC=A1=A3=D5=
=E2=D6=D6=BF=C9=C4=DC=CB=E6=CA=B1=B7=A2=C9=FA=CE=DE=B7=A8=B6=C5=BE=F8=A3=AC=
=B5=AB=CD=A8=B9=FD=C8=C3=B3=C1=C4=AC=B5=C4=B4=F3=B6=E0=CA=FD=C7=AE=B0=FC=BD=
=DA=B5=E3=C9=FD=BC=B6=B5=C4=B7=BD=CA=BD=BF=C9=D2=D4=BD=B5=B5=CD=D5=E2=D6=D6=
=D0=D0=CE=AA=B4=F8=C0=B4=B5=C4=C0=FB=D2=E6=A1=A3<br/>
>>=20
>> 1. The fluctuation of the hashing power will affect the result of the
>> longest chain. Higher activating requirement means a lower risk of =
temporary
>> fork. <br/>
>> 2. Miners could simply signal to avoid being orphaned, but from the
>> perspective of non-mining wallet nodes, they can't distinguish the =
false
>> signal from the true signal. They must upgrade with the assumption =
that the
>> signals are all true. After all the non-mining nodes have upgraded, =
the
>> miners signalling false signal should follow. <br/>
>>=20
>> Miners can simply announce they are false signalling with coinbase
>> tags and other methods. This activation method would likely not be
>> viable for controversial changes.
>>=20
>>=20
>> =C8=E7=B9=FB=B4=F3=B6=E0=CA=FD=BF=F3=B9=A4=CA=C7=B3=CF=CA=B5=B5=C4=A3=AC=
=BC=D9=D0=C5=BA=C5=B2=BB=BB=E1=D3=D0=CE=CA=CC=E2=A1=A3
>> False signal won=A1=AFt be a problem if majority miners are honest.
>=20
> I'm referring to a potential situation where 55% of miners want a
> change and 45% don't, the 45% could false signal.
>=20

=B5=B1=C8=BB=A3=AC45% =
=BF=C9=D2=D4=B7=A2=CB=CD=BC=D9=D0=C5=BA=C5=A3=AC=BF=C9=D2=D4=BA=CD=B2=BF=B7=
=D6=BD=DA=B5=E3=B9=B2=C4=B1=A1=A3=B5=AB=D5=E2=CA=C7=B5=B1=C7=B0=D2=D1=BE=AD=
=B4=E6=D4=DA=B5=C4=CE=CA=CC=E2=A3=AC=B2=A2=C3=BB=D3=D0=D2=F2=B4=CB=B8=FC=D4=
=E3=B8=E2=A1=A3
Of cause, there could be false signal from 45% and have conspiracy with =
some nodes. But that=A1=AFs the problem we have today, and it don=A1=AFt =
get any worse (nor any better).


>>=20
>> 3. Non-mining wallet nodes could false signal without supporting the =
new
>> protocol but since the total number of nodes cannot be distinguished,
>> genuine nodes should follow the proven result provided by miners =
vote. <br/>
>>=20
>> Users would likely take into account markets and other factors when
>> deciding what to do, the total number of nodes doesn't really matter
>> much. Miner signalling is not necessarily indicative of economic and
>> user support.
>>=20
>>=20
>> =BF=F3=B9=A4=D0=E8=D2=AA=D4=DA=BF=C9=D2=D4=C8=B7=B1=A3=B4=F3=B6=E0=CA=FD=
=D3=C3=BB=A7=B2=BB=B1=BB=C9=FD=BC=B6=D3=B0=CF=EC=B5=C4=C7=E9=BF=F6=CF=C2=B2=
=C5=C4=DC=B9=AB=D5=FD=CD=B6=C6=B1=A1=A3
>> Miners should vote unbiasedly under the condition that most users are =
not
>> affected by protocol upgrading.
>>=20
>>=20
>> 4. Miners and non-mining nodes could conspire to fork using old =
protocol
>> consensus. It can't be eliminated, just like in the past but through =
most
>> passive non-mining nodes being upgraded, their benefit is reduced. =
<br/>
>>=20
>>=20
>> =3D=3DImplementation=3D=3D
>> ___TBD___
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dgb2312"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
James:<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">=D4=DA 2017=C4=EA6=D4=C213=C8=D5=A3=AC15:19=A3=AC=
James Hilliard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.hilliard1@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">james.hilliard1@gmail.com</a>&gt; =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 1:50 AM, =
Zheming Lin &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:heater@gmail.com" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">heater@gmail.com</a><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">&gt; wrote:</span><br style=3D"font-family:=
 Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">Hi James:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thank you very much for detailed feedback. Sorry for my =
understanding of<br class=3D"">English being poor. I=A1=AFll try to =
answer that.<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">=D4=DA =
2017=C4=EA6=D4=C213=C8=D5=A3=AC13:44=A3=ACJames Hilliard &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:james.hilliard1@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">james.hilliard1@gmail.com</a>&gt; =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">1. The activation only requires =
majority miners signal. As described in the<br class=3D"">paper by =
Satoshi Nakamoto, 55% miners will be in the longest chain after 340<br =
class=3D"">blocks, with 99.9% certainty. This will minimize the =
possibility of delaying<br class=3D"">network upgrades by controlling a =
small number of hashing power. We can<br class=3D"">foresee that after =
51% signalling, all miners will upgrade within the first<br =
class=3D"">grace period. &lt;br/&gt;<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Technically soft forks can be implemented at 55% hashpower =
already<br class=3D"">without an orphaning period(like BIP16). Those =
that don't upgrade<br class=3D"">would just be at risk of mining invalid =
blocks. One would not want to<br class=3D"">use this method to try and =
activate a controversial hard fork since<br class=3D"">it's trivial for =
miners to false signal. The orphaning period<br class=3D"">effectively =
forces miners to make a decision but does not necessarily<br =
class=3D"">force them to make a particular decision since they can =
simply choose<br class=3D"">to reject the fork and false signal.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">=BC=D9=D0=C5=BA=C5=B5=C4=CE=CA=CC=E2=D4=DA=CE=D2=BF=B4=C0=B4=CE=
=DE=B7=A8=BD=E2=BE=F6=A1=A3=B5=AB=C8=E7=B9=FB=B6=E0=CA=FD=B2=BB=CD=AC=D2=E2=
=D5=E2=B8=F6=B8=C4=B1=E4=A3=AC=CE=AA=CA=B2=C3=B4=CB=FB=C3=C7=BB=B9=D2=AA=C6=
=DB=C6=AD=A3=BF=C8=E7=B9=FB=B6=E0=CA=FD=C8=E7=D6=D0=B1=BE=B4=CF=B9=B2=CA=B6=
=D6=D0=C3=E8=CA=F6=B5=C4=C4=C7=D1=F9=CA=C7=B3=CF=CA=B5=BF=C9=D0=C5=B5=C4=A3=
=AC=C4=C7=BE=CD=B2=BB=BB=E1=D3=D0=C8=CE=BA=CE=CE=CA=CC=E2=A1=A3=CD=A8=B9=FD=
=CB=E3=C1=A6=D7=DC=C4=DC=B7=D6=B3=F6=CA=A4=B8=BA=A1=A3<br class=3D"">False=
 signal can=A1=AFt be solved in my opinion. If the majority part just =
don=A1=AFt<br class=3D"">agree with the change, why they cheat? If the =
majority part is honest as<br class=3D"">described in nakamoto =
consensus, I think that won=A1=AFt be a problem. CPU power<br =
class=3D"">always decides.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">Nakamoto consensus is used to determine the =
longest chain among</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">multiple valid chains, it's not =
enough to determine validity by</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">itself. For example in a hard =
fork if a minority of hashpower decided</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">not to fork then they would =
simply consider the forked chain invalid</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">and ignore it, even if that =
majority chain had significantly more</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">work.</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>=BD=DA=B5=E3=D0=E8=D2=AA=D7=D4=D6=F7=BE=F6=B6=A8=CA=C7=
=B7=F1=B8=FA=CB=E6=D0=AD=D2=E9=C9=FD=BC=B6=A1=A3=B5=AB=CA=C7=CB=FB=C3=C7=B2=
=BB=C4=DC=B1=BB=B6=AF=B5=C4=CA=B2=C3=B4=B6=BC=B2=BB=D7=F6=A1=A3=CB=FB=C3=C7=
=D7=DC=CA=C7=B4=E6=D4=DA=D3=D0=B6=E0=D6=D6=B5=C4=D1=A1=D4=F1=A1=A3</div><d=
iv>The node should decide to follow the protocol upgrade or not. But =
they can=A1=AFt just be passive and do nothing. The choice is always =
provided.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>=C8=E7=B9=FB=CB=FB=C3=C7=B2=A2=B2=BB=CF=E0=D0=C5=B4=F3=
=B6=E0=CA=FD=B5=C4=BF=F3=B9=A4=A3=AC=CB=FB=C3=C7=BF=C9=D2=D4=D1=A1=D4=F1=D2=
=BB=D0=A9=C3=BB=D3=D0=BF=F3=B9=A4=BD=C7=C9=AB=B5=C4=CC=E6=B4=FA=B1=D2=A1=A3=
</div><div>If they don=A1=AFt trust the choice of majority miners, they =
can use some alt coin that don=A1=AFt including miners=A1=AF =
part.</div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">2. During the first two grace periods, non-mining nodes will =
not be<br class=3D"">affected. They have enough time to upgrade their =
software. &lt;br/&gt;<br class=3D"">3. Versionbits included in block =
header, not influencing the SPY mining.<br class=3D"">&lt;br/&gt;<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">The widely deployed stratum based SPV mining =
does not really provide a<br class=3D"">proper way to validate nversion =
of the previous block, it only lets<br class=3D"">you see the nversion =
of the current stratum job since you don't get a<br class=3D"">full bock =
header. There's always a risk here that miners build on top<br =
class=3D"">of invalid blocks when SPV mining.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">=D2=B2=D0=ED=CE=D2=CA=C7=B4=ED=B5=C4=CE=D2=B2=A2=
=B2=BB=BF=CF=B6=A8=A1=A3=C7=EB=B6=D4=C8=E7=BA=CE=C8=C3=D5=E2=B8=F6=B7=BD=B7=
=A8=BC=E6=C8=DD SPY =CD=DA=BF=F3=CC=E1=B3=F6=BD=A8=C9=E8=D0=D4=D2=E2=BC=FB=
=A1=A3<br class=3D"">Maybe I=A1=AFm wrong. Please give some advice that =
how to make it compatible with<br class=3D"">SPY mining.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">It's just problematic in general and I'm =
not sure there's a good way</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">around it other than putting as =
many safety nets as possible in place</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">to limit the amount of time =
miners mine on invalid work. For example</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">when an invalid BU blocks was =
mined on the network more than 50% of</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">hashpower mined on top of it for =
a short period of time.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>=CE=D2=C3=C7=D3=A6=B5=B1=D2=FD=C8=EB=C7=F8=BF=E9=D0=A3=
=D1=E9=A3=AC=B5=AB=C8=E7=BA=CE=CE=AA=B2=BB=D1=E9=D6=A4=BD=F8=D0=D0 SPY =
=CD=DA=BF=F3=B5=C4=BF=F3=B9=A4=CC=E1=B9=A9=BC=A4=C0=F8=CA=C7=C1=ED=CD=E2=D2=
=BB=B8=F6=CE=CA=CC=E2=C1=CB=A1=A3</div><div>We should introduce block =
validation in the code, but how to provide incentive to no-validating =
SPY miner is another problem.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">4. After two =
grace periods, all nodes must be upgraded. Otherwise they<br =
class=3D"">cannot send transactions or get any confirmations. Compared =
with forming new<br class=3D"">consensus among nodes, the situation is =
not worse than before. &lt;br/&gt;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Previous =
consensus changes have largely been done in backwards<br =
class=3D"">compatible ways which lets users opt-in to new features. In =
general<br class=3D"">backwards compatibility is considered a good =
thing, this seems to make<br class=3D"">that worse.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">=D5=E2=B2=A2=C3=BB=D3=D0=C7=BF=D6=C6=CE=D2=C3=C7=B5=C4=BD=DA=B5=
=E3=D7=F7=B3=F6=C8=CE=BA=CE=B8=C4=B1=E4=B9=B2=CA=B6=B5=C4=B1=ED=CA=BE=A1=A3=
=BD=F6=BD=F6=C8=C3=D5=E2=D0=A9=BD=DA=B5=E3=CE=AA=BD=D3=CF=C2=C0=B4=BF=C9=C4=
=DC=B5=C4=B8=C4=B1=E4=D7=F6=BA=C3=D7=BC=B1=B8=A1=A3<br class=3D"">It =
would not force our nodes to do anything that changes the consensus. =
But<br class=3D"">they should be prepared for the **maybe** upcoming =
changes.<br =
class=3D"">=D0=AD=D2=E9=B5=C4=B8=C4=B1=E4=BD=AB=CD=A8=B9=FD=BF=F3=B9=A4=CD=
=B6=C6=B1=B2=FA=C9=FA=A3=AC=B5=AB=CA=C7=D5=E2=B8=F6=B9=FD=B3=CC=D3=A6=B8=C3=
=B1=BB=CB=F9=D3=D0=BD=DA=B5=E3=CB=F9=D6=AA=CF=FE=B2=A2=B3=D0=C8=CF=A1=A3<b=
r class=3D"">Protocol upgrades could be done using miners vote. but the =
progress of<br class=3D"">voting should be acknowledged by all nodes.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">I'm not seeing how it could be considered =
backwards compatible if</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">"they cannot send transactions =
or get any confirmations=A1=B1.</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>=CE=D2=B2=A2=B2=BB=B0=D1=D5=E2=B8=F6=B7=BD=B7=A8=BF=B4=
=D7=F7=CA=C7=CD=EA=C8=AB=B5=C4=CF=F2=BA=F3=BC=E6=C8=DD=A1=A3=D4=DA=B4=F3=BC=
=D2=B6=BC=C8=CF=BF=C9=A1=B0=C7=F8=BF=E9=B8=DF=B6=C8xxx=BA=F3=A3=AC=D6=B4=D0=
=D0xxx=A1=B1=B5=C4=CA=B1=BA=F2=A3=AC=CE=D2=B2=A2=B2=BB=C8=CF=CE=AA=D5=E2=BA=
=DC=D6=D8=D2=AA=A1=A3</div><div>I don=A1=AFt see them as completely =
backwards compatible. since I don=A1=AFt see that is important if we all =
agree with =A1=B0after block height xxx, then =
xxx=A1=B1.</div><div>=CE=D2=C3=C7=D2=C0=C8=BB=BF=C9=D2=D4=B4=D3=B4=B4=CA=C0=
=C7=F8=BF=E9=BF=AA=CA=BC=D2=BB=D6=B1=D1=E9=D6=A4=B5=BD=BD=F1=CC=EC=A1=A3</=
div><div>And we can validate from the genesis block till =
today.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">5. The ledger in non-mining =
wallet nodes is honored and reserved. Users of<br class=3D"">off-chain =
wallet services can decide whether or not to follow the service<br =
class=3D"">providers after they got the public notification from the =
service providers.<br class=3D"">&lt;br/&gt;<br class=3D"">6. Protocol =
upgrades in the future can be bonded with the upgrades of nodes,<br =
class=3D"">and the upgrades activate through miners vote independently. =
There would be<br class=3D"">enough time for nodes to be upgraded in =
order to support new protocols. Even<br class=3D"">in case of failing in =
miner activation, the situation will not worsen and<br class=3D"">the =
status quo will remain. &lt;br/&gt;<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">=3D=3DRisks=3D=3D<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">1. =
=CB=E3=C1=A6=B5=C4=B2=A8=B6=AF=BB=E1=D3=B0=CF=EC=D7=EE=B3=A4=C1=B4=B5=C4=BD=
=E1=B9=FB=A1=A3=D2=F2=B4=CB=D4=BD=B8=DF=B5=C4=BC=A4=BB=EE=B1=C8=C0=FD=D2=AA=
=C7=F3=BD=AB=BC=F5=C9=D9=B6=CC=CA=B1=BC=E4=B7=D6=B2=E6=B5=C4=CE=A3=CF=D5=A1=
=A3&lt;br/&gt;<br class=3D"">2. =
=BF=F3=B9=A4=BF=C9=C4=DC=B7=A2=BC=D9=D0=C5=BA=C5=C0=B4=B1=DC=C3=E2=B1=BB=B9=
=C2=C1=A2=A3=AC=B5=AB=D4=DA=C7=AE=B0=FC=BD=DA=B5=E3=BF=B4=C0=B4=CE=DE=B7=A8=
=C7=F8=B7=D6=CA=C7=B7=F1=CA=C7=BC=D9=D0=C5=BA=C5=A3=AC=D6=BB=C4=DC=C9=FD=BC=
=B6=A1=A3=B6=F8=C7=AE=B0=FC=BD=DA=B5=E3=C9=FD=BC=B6=D6=AE=BA=F3=A3=AC=BF=F3=
=B9=A4=D2=B2=BD=AB=B8=FA=CB=E6=A1=A3&lt;br/&gt;<br class=3D"">3. =
=C7=AE=B0=FC=BD=DA=B5=E3=BF=C9=C4=DC=B7=A2=BC=D9=D0=C5=BA=C5=C0=B4=BD=F6=C9=
=FD=BC=B6=B0=E6=B1=BE=BA=C5=B6=F8=B2=BB=D6=A7=B3=D6=B0=F3=B6=A8=B5=C4=D0=AD=
=D2=E9=C9=FD=BC=B6=B4=FA=C2=EB=A3=AC=B5=AB=C7=AE=B0=FC=BD=DA=B5=E3=CA=FD=C1=
=BF=CE=DE=B7=A8=C5=D0=B1=F0=A3=AC=D1=CF=CB=E0=B5=C4=D5=E6=CA=B5=BD=DA=B5=E3=
=D3=A6=B5=B1=B8=FA=CB=E6=BF=C9=D6=A4=CA=B5=B5=C4=BF=F3=B9=A4=CD=B6=C6=B1=BD=
=E1=B9=FB=A1=A3&lt;br/&gt;<br class=3D"">4.<br =
class=3D"">=B4=E6=D4=DA=C9=D9=B2=BF=B7=D6=BF=F3=B9=A4=BA=CD=C7=AE=B0=FC=BD=
=DA=B5=E3=B9=B2=C4=B1=A3=AC=D4=DA=D0=C2=D0=AD=D2=E9=C9=FD=BC=B6=BC=A4=BB=EE=
=BA=F3=D2=C0=C8=BB=CA=B9=D3=C3=C0=CF=D0=AD=D2=E9=CD=DA=BF=F3=B5=C4=BF=C9=C4=
=DC=A1=A3=D5=E2=D6=D6=BF=C9=C4=DC=CB=E6=CA=B1=B7=A2=C9=FA=CE=DE=B7=A8=B6=C5=
=BE=F8=A3=AC=B5=AB=CD=A8=B9=FD=C8=C3=B3=C1=C4=AC=B5=C4=B4=F3=B6=E0=CA=FD=C7=
=AE=B0=FC=BD=DA=B5=E3=C9=FD=BC=B6=B5=C4=B7=BD=CA=BD=BF=C9=D2=D4=BD=B5=B5=CD=
=D5=E2=D6=D6=D0=D0=CE=AA=B4=F8=C0=B4=B5=C4=C0=FB=D2=E6=A1=A3&lt;br/&gt;<br=
 class=3D""><br class=3D"">1. The fluctuation of the hashing power will =
affect the result of the<br class=3D"">longest chain. Higher activating =
requirement means a lower risk of temporary<br class=3D"">fork. =
&lt;br/&gt;<br class=3D"">2. Miners could simply signal to avoid being =
orphaned, but from the<br class=3D"">perspective of non-mining wallet =
nodes, they can't distinguish the false<br class=3D"">signal from the =
true signal. They must upgrade with the assumption that the<br =
class=3D"">signals are all true. After all the non-mining nodes have =
upgraded, the<br class=3D"">miners signalling false signal should =
follow. &lt;br/&gt;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Miners can simply =
announce they are false signalling with coinbase<br class=3D"">tags and =
other methods. This activation method would likely not be<br =
class=3D"">viable for controversial changes.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">=C8=E7=B9=FB=B4=F3=B6=E0=CA=FD=BF=F3=B9=A4=CA=C7=
=B3=CF=CA=B5=B5=C4=A3=AC=BC=D9=D0=C5=BA=C5=B2=BB=BB=E1=D3=D0=CE=CA=CC=E2=A1=
=A3<br class=3D"">False signal won=A1=AFt be a problem if majority =
miners are honest.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I'm referring to a potential =
situation where 55% of miners want a</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">change and 45% don't, the 45% =
could false signal.</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>=B5=B1=C8=BB=A3=
=AC45% =
=BF=C9=D2=D4=B7=A2=CB=CD=BC=D9=D0=C5=BA=C5=A3=AC=BF=C9=D2=D4=BA=CD=B2=BF=B7=
=D6=BD=DA=B5=E3=B9=B2=C4=B1=A1=A3=B5=AB=D5=E2=CA=C7=B5=B1=C7=B0=D2=D1=BE=AD=
=B4=E6=D4=DA=B5=C4=CE=CA=CC=E2=A3=AC=B2=A2=C3=BB=D3=D0=D2=F2=B4=CB=B8=FC=D4=
=E3=B8=E2=A1=A3</div><div>Of cause, there could be false signal from 45% =
and have conspiracy with some nodes. But that=A1=AFs the problem we have =
today, and it don=A1=AFt get any worse (nor any better).</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">3. Non-mining =
wallet nodes could false signal without supporting the new<br =
class=3D"">protocol but since the total number of nodes cannot be =
distinguished,<br class=3D"">genuine nodes should follow the proven =
result provided by miners vote. &lt;br/&gt;<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Users would likely take into account markets and other =
factors when<br class=3D"">deciding what to do, the total number of =
nodes doesn't really matter<br class=3D"">much. Miner signalling is not =
necessarily indicative of economic and<br class=3D"">user support.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">=BF=F3=B9=A4=D0=E8=D2=AA=D4=DA=BF=C9=D2=D4=C8=B7=B1=A3=B4=F3=B6=
=E0=CA=FD=D3=C3=BB=A7=B2=BB=B1=BB=C9=FD=BC=B6=D3=B0=CF=EC=B5=C4=C7=E9=BF=F6=
=CF=C2=B2=C5=C4=DC=B9=AB=D5=FD=CD=B6=C6=B1=A1=A3<br class=3D"">Miners =
should vote unbiasedly under the condition that most users are not<br =
class=3D"">affected by protocol upgrading.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">4. Miners and non-mining nodes could conspire =
to fork using old protocol<br class=3D"">consensus. It can't be =
eliminated, just like in the past but through most<br class=3D"">passive =
non-mining nodes being upgraded, their benefit is reduced. =
&lt;br/&gt;<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">=3D=3DImplementation=3D=3D<br class=3D"">___TBD___<br =
class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">bitcoin-dev mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" =
class=3D"">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev<=
/blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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