Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D01C002D for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:57:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D1FC606C6 for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:57:41 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 4D1FC606C6 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.415 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.415 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FAKE_REPLY_C=1.486, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S_87_zMKOvUe for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:57:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 2ACA66068D Received: from azure.erisian.com.au (azure.erisian.com.au [172.104.61.193]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2ACA66068D for ; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:57:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from aj@azure.erisian.com.au (helo=sapphire.erisian.com.au) by azure.erisian.com.au with esmtpsa (Exim 4.92 #3 (Debian)) id 1oB3HT-0000Rs-Nc; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:57:37 +1000 Received: by sapphire.erisian.com.au (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:57:31 +1000 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:57:31 +1000 From: Anthony Towns To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Message-ID: <20220711235731.GD20899@erisian.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Score-int: -3 X-Spam-Bar: / Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Surprisingly, Tail Emission Is Not Inflationary X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:57:41 -0000 On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 08:56:04AM -0400, Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Alternatively, losses could be at a predictable rate that's entirely > > different to the one Peter assumes. > No, peter only assumes that there *is* a rate. No, he assumes it's a constant rate. His integration step gives a different result if lambda changes with t: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=dN%2Fdt+%3D+k+-+lambda%28t%29*N On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 12:59:53PM -0400, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Give me an example of an *actual* inflation rate you expect to see, given a > disaster of a given magnitude. All I was doing was saying your proof is incorrect (or, rather, relies on a highly unrealistic assumption), since I hadn't seen anybody else point that out already. But even if the proof were correct, I don't think it provides a useful mechanism (since there's no reason to think miners gaining all the coins lost in a year will be sufficient for anything), and I don't really think the "security budget" framework (ie, that the percentage of total supply given to miners each year is what's important for security) you're implicitly relying on is particularly meaningful. So no, not particularly interested in diving into it any deeper. Cheers, aj