Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1W4Eyy-0005Rp-Bl for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 17 Jan 2014 19:21:32 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.175; envelope-from=bendavenport@gmail.com; helo=mail-ob0-f175.google.com; Received: from mail-ob0-f175.google.com ([209.85.214.175]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1W4Eyw-0003Qv-HC for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 17 Jan 2014 19:21:32 +0000 Received: by mail-ob0-f175.google.com with SMTP id uz6so4777394obc.34 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2014 11:21:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.74.137 with SMTP id t9mr2804637obv.79.1389986485063; Fri, 17 Jan 2014 11:21:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.122.80 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jan 2014 11:21:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20140117144601.GA8614@petertodd.org> References: <20140114225321.GT38964@giles.gnomon.org.uk> <20140116212805.GA4421@petertodd.org> <20140117144601.GA8614@petertodd.org> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2014 11:21:24 -0800 Message-ID: From: Ben Davenport To: Peter Todd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1fd62af54b604f02f723d X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (bendavenport[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1W4Eyw-0003Qv-HC Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Stealth Addresses X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2014 19:21:32 -0000 --001a11c1fd62af54b604f02f723d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well, at least we don't have to worry about cache invalidation. Ben On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 6:46 AM, Peter Todd wrote: > On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 10:15:40AM +0100, Mike Hearn wrote: > > I must say, this shed is mighty fine looking. It'd be a great place to > > store our bikes. But, what colour should we paint it? > > I think we should paint it this colour: > > They had uncovered what seemed to be the side of a large coloured > globule embedded in the substance. The colour, which resembled some > of the bands in the meteor's strange spectrum, was almost impossible > to describe; and it was only by analogy that they called it colour > at all. Its texture was glossy, and upon tapping it appeared to > promise both brittle ness and hollowness. One of the professors gave > it a smart blow with a hammer, and it burst with a nervous little > pop. Nothing was emitted, and all trace of the thing vanished with > the puncturing. It left behind a hollow spherical space about three > inches across, and all thought it probable that others would be > discovered as the enclosing substance wasted away. > > I think it really gets to the core of my feelings about this naming > discussion. > > > How about we split the difference and go with "privacy address"? As Peter > > notes, that's what people actually like and want. The problem with > stealth > > is it's got strong connotations with American military hardware and > perhaps > > thieves sneaking around in the night: > > > > https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=stealth > > WOW! AWESOME KICK-ASS PICS! > > Come to think of it, I could have called it "incognito addresses" - a > term nice enough that Google and Firefox use it in their browsers - but > what's done is done and any further discussion about this is just going > to confuse the public. Remember that in the long run all this stuff will > be hidden behind payment protocols anyway, and users *won't even know* > that under the hood a stealth address is being used, making the name > just a technical detail. For now though, lets use the good PR and get > some early adopters on board. > > However, the term 'incognito' probably would be a good one to use within > wallet software itself to describe what it's doing when the user clicks > the "I want my transactions to be private" setting - there are after all > fundemental bandwidth-privacy trade-offs in the threat model supposed by > both prefix and bloom filters. In this instance the term isn't going to > go away. > > > Anyway, back to work: For the actual address format I strongly think we > need to ensure that it can be upgrading in a backwards compatible way. > This means we have to be able to add new fields - for instance if > Gregory's ideas for different ways of doing the SPV-bait came to > fruition. Given that "addresses" aren't something that should stay > user-visible forever, thoughts on just making the actual data a protocol > buffers object? > > Second question: Any performance figures yet on how efficient scanning > the blockchain for matching transactions actually is? I'd like to get an > idea soon for both desktop and smartphone wallets so we can figure out > what kind of trade-offs users might be forced into in terms of prefix > length. > > -- > 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org > 0000000000000001c9b372ed519ecc6d41c10b42a7457d1ca5acd560a535596b > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > --001a11c1fd62af54b604f02f723d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, at least we don't have to worry about cache inva= lidation.

Ben

=
On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 6:46 AM, Peter Todd = <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 10= :15:40AM +0100, Mike Hearn wrote:
> I must say, this shed is mighty fine looking. It'd be a great plac= e to
> store our bikes. But, what colour should we paint it?

I think we should paint it this colour:

=A0 =A0 They had uncovered what seemed to be the side of a large coloured =A0 =A0 globule embedded in the substance. The colour, which resembled some=
=A0 =A0 of the bands in the meteor's strange spectrum, was almost impos= sible
=A0 =A0 to describe; and it was only by analogy that they called it colour<= br> =A0 =A0 at all. =A0Its texture was glossy, and upon tapping it appeared to<= br> =A0 =A0 promise both brittle ness and hollowness. One of the professors gav= e
=A0 =A0 it a smart blow with a hammer, and it burst with a nervous little =A0 =A0 pop. Nothing was emitted, and all trace of the thing vanished with<= br> =A0 =A0 the puncturing. It left behind a hollow spherical space about three=
=A0 =A0 inches across, and all thought it probable that others would be
=A0 =A0 discovered as the enclosing substance wasted away.

I think it really gets to the core of my feelings about this naming
discussion.

> How about we split the difference and go with "privacy address&qu= ot;? As Peter
> notes, that's what people actually like and want. The problem with= stealth
> is it's got strong connotations with American military hardware an= d perhaps
> thieves sneaking around in the night:
>
> =A0 =A0https://www.google.com/search?tbm=3Disch&q=3Dst= ealth

WOW! AWESOME KICK-ASS PICS!

Come to think of it, I could have called it "incognito addresses"= - a
term nice enough that Google and Firefox use it in their browsers - but
what's done is done and any further discussion about this is just going=
to confuse the public. Remember that in the long run all this stuff will be hidden behind payment protocols anyway, and users *won't even know*<= br> that under the hood a stealth address is being used, making the name
just a technical detail. For now though, lets use the good PR and get
some early adopters on board.

However, the term 'incognito' probably would be a good one to use w= ithin
wallet software itself to describe what it's doing when the user clicks=
the "I want my transactions to be private" setting - there are af= ter all
fundemental bandwidth-privacy trade-offs in the threat model supposed by both prefix and bloom filters. In this instance the term isn't going to=
go away.


Anyway, back to work: For the actual address format I strongly think we
need to ensure that it can be upgrading in a backwards compatible way.
This means we have to be able to add new fields - for instance if
Gregory's ideas for different ways of doing the SPV-bait came to
fruition. Given that "addresses" aren't something that should= stay
user-visible forever, thoughts on just making the actual data a protocol buffers object?

Second question: Any performance figures yet on how efficient scanning
the blockchain for matching transactions actually is? I'd like to get a= n
idea soon for both desktop and smartphone wallets so we can figure out
what kind of trade-offs users might be forced into in terms of prefix
length.

--
'peter'[:-1]@pet= ertodd.org
0000000000000001c9b372ed519ecc6d41c10b42a7457d1ca5acd560a535596b

---------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------
CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam= pad/clk?id=3D119420431&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk
__________________= _____________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


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