Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Z63UB-0002i8-GW for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 21:06:03 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.218.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.218.49; envelope-from=frankf44@gmail.com; helo=mail-oi0-f49.google.com; Received: from mail-oi0-f49.google.com ([209.85.218.49]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Z63U9-00080y-Pv for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 21:06:03 +0000 Received: by oigx81 with SMTP id x81so88543005oig.1 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:05:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.194.9 with SMTP id s9mr4564357oif.39.1434747956380; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.56.165 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:05:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6716121.uS5ifrNBZv@crushinator> References: <20150619103959.GA32315@savin.petertodd.org> <20150619154054.GA13498@savin.petertodd.org> <6716121.uS5ifrNBZv@crushinator> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 16:05:56 -0500 Message-ID: From: Frank Flores To: Bitcoin Dev Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113dc334484bbe0518e54af6 X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (frankf44[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (frankf44[at]gmail.com) 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1Z63U9-00080y-Pv Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] F2Pool has enabled full replace-by-fee X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 21:06:03 -0000 --001a113dc334484bbe0518e54af6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Has anyone from Mycelium weighed in on this? Is their doublespend attack detection broken with this kind of irresponsible behavior? On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:39 PM, Matt Whitlock wrote: > On Friday, 19 June 2015, at 9:18 am, Adrian Macneil wrote: > > If full-RBF sees any significant adoption by miners, then it will > actively > > harm bitcoin adoption by reducing or removing the ability for online or > POS > > merchants to accept bitcoin payments at all. > > Retail POS merchants probably should not be accepting vanilla Bitcoin > payments, as Bitcoin alone does not (and cannot) guarantee the > irreversibility of a transaction until it has been buried several blocks > deep in the chain. Retail merchants should be requiring a co-signature from > a mutually trusted co-signer that vows never to sign a double-spend. The > reason we don't yet see such technology permeating the ecosystem is > because, to date, zero-conf transactions have been irreversible "enough," > but this has only been a happy accident; it was never promised, and it > should not be relied upon. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > -- *MONEY IS OVER!* IF YOU WANT IT ===================================================== The causes of my servitude can be traced to the tyranny of money. -Serj Tankian --001a113dc334484bbe0518e54af6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has anyone from Mycelium weighed in on this? Is their doub= lespend attack detection broken with this kind of irresponsible behavior?

On Fri, Jun 1= 9, 2015 at 3:39 PM, Matt Whitlock <bip@mattwhitlock.name> wrote:
On Friday, 19 June 2015, at 9:18= am, Adrian Macneil wrote:
> If full-RBF sees any significant adoption by miners, then it will acti= vely
> harm bitcoin adoption by reducing or removing the ability for online o= r POS
> merchants to accept bitcoin payments at all.

Retail POS merchants probably should not be accepting vanilla Bitcoin payme= nts, as Bitcoin alone does not (and cannot) guarantee the irreversibility o= f a transaction until it has been buried several blocks deep in the chain. = Retail merchants should be requiring a co-signature from a mutually trusted= co-signer that vows never to sign a double-spend. The reason we don't = yet see such technology permeating the ecosystem is because, to date, zero-= conf transactions have been irreversible "enough," but this has o= nly been a happy accident; it was never promised, and it should not be reli= ed upon.

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--
=
MONEY IS OVER!
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IF YOU WANT IT
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
The causes of my servit= ude can be traced to the tyranny of money.
-Serj Tankian
--001a113dc334484bbe0518e54af6--