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From: Tamas Blummer <tamas@bitsofproof.com>
In-Reply-To: <CANEZrP3tBnikpE99bTvTshiVDpRNJE8zKM1skPua2k2E7J=gRw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014 12:44:32 +0200
Message-Id: <3DB84423-BAEB-4290-B43C-7A3B07141844@bitsofproof.com>
References: <CA+s+GJCn9U2kmyMH6w3o+m99NCfO0ws=SccvGBYJv07WVuF=eA@mail.gmail.com>
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To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV
	wallets
Precedence: list


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Thanks, Peter and you convinced me. I run away with a thought.

It=92d be great to find a spot to deploy payment channels, but I agree =
this is not it.

Tamas Blummer
http://bitsofproof.com

On 10.04.2014, at 12:40, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:

> 1) There is no catch 22 as there are plenty of ways getting bitcoin =
without bootstrapping a full node.
>=20
> I think I maybe wasn't clear. To spend coins you need transaction =
data. Today, the dominant model is that people get that data by scanning =
the block chain. If you can obtain the transaction data without doing =
that then, either:
>=20
> 1) Someone is doing chain scanning for free. See my point about "why =
pay if you can get it for free".
>=20
> 2) You got your tx data direct from the person you who sent you the =
funds, perhaps via the payment protocol. This would resolve the catch 22 =
by allowing you to spend bitcoins without actually having talked to the =
P2P network first, but we're a loooooong way from this world.
>=20
> And that's it. I don't think there are any other ways to get the tx =
data you need. Either someone gives it to you in the act of spending, or =
someone else gives it away for free, undermining the =
charge-for-the-p2p-network model.


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><div>Thanks, Peter and you convinced me. I run away =
with a thought.</div><div><br></div><div>It=92d be great to find a spot =
to deploy payment channels, but I agree this is not it.</div><br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; float: none; =
display: inline !important;">Tamas Blummer</span><br style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: =
2; float: none; display: inline !important;"><a =
href=3D"http://bitsofproof.com">http://bitsofproof.com</a></span>
</span></div>
<br><div><div>On 10.04.2014, at 12:40, Mike Hearn &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net">mike@plan99.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>1) There is no catch 22 as there are =
plenty of ways getting bitcoin without bootstrapping a full node.</div>
</div></blockquote><div></div></div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">I=
 think I maybe wasn't clear. To spend coins you need transaction data. =
Today, the dominant model is that people get that data by scanning the =
block chain. If you can obtain the transaction data without doing that =
then, either:</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">1) =
Someone is doing chain scanning for free. See my point about "why pay if =
you can get it for free".</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra">
2) You got your tx data direct from the person you who sent you the =
funds, perhaps via the payment protocol. This would resolve the catch 22 =
by allowing you to spend bitcoins without actually having talked to the =
P2P network first, but we're a loooooong way from this world.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">And =
that's it. I don't think there are any other ways to get the tx data you =
need. Either someone gives it to you in the act of spending, or someone =
else gives it away for free, undermining the charge-for-the-p2p-network =
model.</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

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