Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1XuK7w-0001VX-0a for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 11:54:20 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of pixodegames.com designates 209.85.217.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.181; envelope-from=flavien.charlon@pixodegames.com; helo=mail-lb0-f181.google.com; Received: from mail-lb0-f181.google.com ([209.85.217.181]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1XuK7u-0005iX-GL for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 11:54:19 +0000 Received: by mail-lb0-f181.google.com with SMTP id 10so5337469lbg.40 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 03:54:12 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=/wto64ptuKNVj1SPaBmFbrza/SR9V5n8Cof4PqSNIwE=; b=J0YchpGcEIM1uEirhE2BQ8nP8P6x99o9yERruPfBfsvkSN/h7jKER+ZlF6dF1DU9T/ S3QhwuRV02bvTjwGPzuS/EhYr1cDv+zdOyobTubV2aHx0Ab4oGQMdABBZFvHajrW40yH RClTkEp/HvNUL8MDZZk/aaNnkH013QVTE/ltppZ4T0/a4h1mwnWoSB+p8i73mpws+bUB C7pVWXGmdKmIYe4V6is87ZsPH7YAKEp0Ym5ZTQNHHzP2Yau5uUBhsUojGdq1G5/Ebjl4 CC9ck3gNPYPPiMiNx/uxoIH9qxSVAEcVUebBofA3x8gAWZNih4jryL5jXTklbcptyS1A 3eSg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnd6Juf+fTfbg41qmvv7MpxG317EZhOHyj47fXa+h5T72O7i9qfsllJkcm0hqEkFwdcsXwH X-Received: by 10.112.63.133 with SMTP id g5mr43349825lbs.33.1417175159999; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 03:45:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-f46.google.com (mail-la0-f46.google.com. [209.85.215.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qf2sm2568390lbb.9.2014.11.28.03.45.59 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Nov 2014 03:45:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-la0-f46.google.com with SMTP id q1so634880lam.5 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 03:45:59 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.152.2.41 with SMTP id 9mr42556722lar.47.1417175159406; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 03:45:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.114.18.212 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 03:45:19 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [89.100.161.202] In-Reply-To: <3A394B8C-FD24-4134-A8B8-CCAF63ECB5B0@petertodd.org> References: <63C13C3D-5333-4DEA-A42F-A4685DDE09DA@ricmoo.com> <3A394B8C-FD24-4134-A8B8-CCAF63ECB5B0@petertodd.org> From: Flavien Charlon Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 11:45:19 +0000 Message-ID: To: Peter Todd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013c6258f616d80508e9cd35 X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1XuK7u-0005iX-GL Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP 65 and OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY inquiry... X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 11:54:20 -0000 --089e013c6258f616d80508e9cd35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > This breaks existing invariants and would make the coins potentially less fungible because they wouldn't be reorg safe. I'm not sure coins are ever reorg safe. All it takes is a double spend in the history of your coins for them to become invalid after a reorg. Because of that, there are already less fungible coins. This is why we recommend 6 confirmations for important payments. On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Peter Todd wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > > > On 27 November 2014 18:46:23 GMT-05:00, Gregory Maxwell < > gmaxwell@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >The things you're suggesting were all carefully designed out of the > >proposal, perhaps the BIP text needs some more clarification to make > >this more clear. > > It does; it is still a draft. That said I think writing up some actual > working examples, in code, of CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY using protocols is a > bigger priority. Micropayment channels comes to mind, as well as a > greenaddress-style wallet. > > When I get a chance I'm going to rebase the initial implementation and add > to it a command-line-flag to verify CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY as an IsStandard() > rule for testing purposes. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: APG v1.1.1 > > iQFQBAEBCAA6BQJUd+luMxxQZXRlciBUb2RkIChsb3cgc2VjdXJpdHkga2V5KSA8 > cGV0ZUBwZXRlcnRvZGQub3JnPgAKCRAZnIM7qOfwhWmcB/0UK030Q6TSpi95x0Gh > hGYaSAInUWpbZzZtP+1AFrGDGRdGo0glFFf8xggI+U5kuc0woPYrn/VEGcprPhvs > KQFZrirXVr7Q09TVlHiPDen5v3Y7xwL5kQDUrBPP71Pe3R2o6IbfdwxsZ8+yYso8 > hY6WQmImQpKJd4gEd76w1QrF8Btl1Jz/PGh4EE3GSPGlflvBwA6igSiRoD/czb1x > 63y4AsPEil2hrmIjTZHqwnl40BqnmZ8qpNLWeIEjE++pbkxLTjvUcPy03/wtTWZA > 5dCGeY5WavgZsPazhSdaTtM5/7wPSQQ0PDXNHdHgmewkvbyBpy78orV/3bEG+xFz > 2SWi > =4OmI > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards > with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more > Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > --089e013c6258f616d80508e9cd35 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> This breaks existing invariants and would make t= he coins potentially less fungible because they wouldn't be reorg safe.=

I'm not sure coins are ever reorg safe. All i= t takes is a double spend in the history of your coins for them to become i= nvalid after a reorg. Because of that, there are already less fungible coin= s. This is why we recommend 6 confirmations for important payments.

On Fri, Nov 2= 8, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:<= br>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256



On 27 November 2014 18:46:23 GMT-05:00, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip 100% accurate commentary from gmaxwell>

>The things you're suggesting were all carefully designed out of the=
>proposal, perhaps the BIP text needs some more clarification to make >this more clear.

It does; it is still a draft. That said I think writing up some actu= al working examples, in code, of CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY using protocols is a b= igger priority. Micropayment channels comes to mind, as well as a greenaddr= ess-style wallet.

When I get a chance I'm going to rebase the initial implementation and = add to it a command-line-flag to verify CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY as an IsStandar= d() rule for testing purposes.
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