Return-Path: Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D17C016F; Thu, 14 May 2020 15:33:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whitealder.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E507D867C5; Thu, 14 May 2020 15:33:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NsxHC3KKaMj9; Thu, 14 May 2020 15:33:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 00:06:40 by SQLgrey-1.7.6 X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from cfg.domain (jb55.com [45.79.91.128]) by whitealder.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51BDE86156; Thu, 14 May 2020 15:33:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jb55.com (S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net [24.84.152.187]) by jb55.com (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id c3674d70 (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 14 May 2020 15:27:26 +0000 (UTC) From: William Casarin To: Orfeas Stefanos Thyfronitis Litos In-Reply-To: <45FD4FF1-1E09-4748-8B05-478DEF6C1966@ed.ac.uk> References: <202005051300.38836.luke@dashjr.org> <6883e35a-e584-523f-d6f9-cf9ce2cca66d@riseup.net> <45FD4FF1-1E09-4748-8B05-478DEF6C1966@ed.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 08:27:11 -0700 Message-ID: <87h7wiedv4.fsf@jb55.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 May 2020 16:56:33 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion , "lightning-dev\\\\\\\\@lists.linuxfoundation.org" Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] On the scalability issues of onboarding millions of LN mobile clients X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 15:33:57 -0000 Orfeas Stefanos Thyfronitis Litos writes: > ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev writes: >> If everyone runs such a privately-owned server, on the other hand, this >> is not so different from having a Lightning node you run at your home >> that has a fullnode as well and which you access via a remote control >> mobile device, and it is the inconvenience of having such a server at >> your home that prevents this in the first place. > > Private full nodes serving headers to a handful of weak devices have > been mentioned many times as a good solution against all sorts of > problems in a future full of LN + SPV nodes. I agree. It should be > therefore a top priority to make the UX of connecting my mobile LN > client to my home full node extremely easy, so that centralised > services can't improve much on that step. Especially if I already run > a full node. > > Could someone briefly describe how this UX looks currently? And if > it's not as seamless as it could, what blockers are there? The UX for this doesn't have to be complicated. All you need is a node provider like FullyNoded, Casa, etc. My setup at home is a desktop with: - bitcoind - clightning - zerotier (or tailscale) (private vpn for connecting to your node from anywhere) - sparkwallet (clightning webui) bound to a zerotier interface So as long as you have a node that runs these bits of software, perhaps assumeutxo to speed up IBD, and a QR-code automagic setup, then UX should be pretty smooth. You would still need to deal with lightning backups and liquidity issues, but we just need to do more work on the software side to make that experience nicer. Cheers, Will -- https://jb55.com