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In-Reply-To: <C3B41B70-E137-4910-A3BA-ED1464733E8D@voskuil.org>
From: Zac Greenwood <zachgrw@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 14:44:49 +0200
Message-ID: <CAJ4-pEA=aMEkvLRSHjaHYRf=YBqKuZjdSnim=GTOCfLOUm+o1Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>
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Cc: Prayank <prayank@tutanota.de>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Trinary Version Signaling for softfork
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Eric,

> A million nodes saying a transaction is invalid does nothing to enforce
that knowledge

It does. Nodes disregard invalid transactions and invalid blocks as if they
never existed. It is not possible for any party to transact bitcoin in a
way that violates the set of rules enforced by the network of
consensus-compatible nodes that we call Bitcoin.

Zac


On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 2:03 PM Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org> wrote:

> A million nodes saying a transaction is invalid does nothing to enforce
> that knowledge.
>
> An economic node is a person who refuses to accept invalid money. A node
> only informs this decision, it cannot enforce it. That=E2=80=99s up to pe=
ople.
>
> And clearly if one is not actually accepting bitcoin for anything at the
> time, he is not enforcing anything.
>
> The idea of a non-economic node is well established, nothing new here.
>
> e
>
> On Jun 30, 2021, at 04:33, Zac Greenwood <zachgrw@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hi Eric,
>
> > A node (software) doesn=E2=80=99t enforce anything. Merchants enforce c=
onsensus
> rules
>
> =E2=80=A6 by running a node which they believe to enforce the rules of Bi=
tcoin.
>
> A node definitely enforces consensus rules and defines what is Bitcoin. I
> am quite disturbed that this is even being debated here.
>
> Zac
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Eric,<div><br></div><div>&gt; A million nodes saying a tra=
nsaction is invalid does nothing to enforce that knowledge</div><div><br></=
div><div>It does. Nodes disregard invalid transactions and invalid blocks a=
s if they never existed. It is not possible for any party to transact bitco=
in in a way that violates the set of rules enforced by the network of conse=
nsus-compatible nodes that we call Bitcoin.</div><div><br></div><div>Zac</d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 2:03 PM Eric Voskuil =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eric@voskuil.org">eric@voskuil.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><=
div dir=3D"ltr">A million nodes saying a transaction is invalid does nothin=
g to enforce that knowledge.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">An economic node is a person who refuses to accept invalid money. A node=
 only informs this decision, it cannot enforce it. That=E2=80=99s up to peo=
ple.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">And clearly if one is=
 not actually accepting bitcoin for anything at the time, he is not enforci=
ng anything.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The idea of a=
 non-economic node is well established, nothing new here.</div><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">e</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite">On Jun 30, 2021, at 04:33, Zac Greenwood &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:z=
achgrw@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">zachgrw@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br=
></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<di=
v dir=3D"auto">Hi Eric,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
<span style=3D"border-color:rgb(0,0,0);color:rgb(0,0,0)">&gt; A node (softw=
are) doesn=E2=80=99t enforce anything. Merchants enforce consensus rules</s=
pan><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"border-color:rgb(0,0,0);colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div style=3D"background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)=
;border-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(255,255,255)" dir=3D"auto"><font s=
tyle=3D"border-color:rgb(0,0,0);color:rgb(0,0,0)">=E2=80=A6 by running a no=
de which they believe to enforce the rules of Bitcoin.</font></div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><span style=3D"border-color:rgb(0,0,0);color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></sp=
an></div><div style=3D"background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0);border-color:rgb(255,=
255,255);color:rgb(255,255,255)" dir=3D"auto"><font style=3D"border-color:r=
gb(0,0,0);color:rgb(0,0,0)">A node definitely enforces consensus rules and =
defines what is Bitcoin. I am quite disturbed that</font><span style=3D"bor=
der-color:rgb(0,0,0);color:rgb(0,0,0)">=C2=A0this is even being debated her=
e.</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"border-color:rgb(0,0,0);col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"border-col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);color:rgb(0,0,0)">Zac</span></div>
</div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div>

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