Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B1C3C0001 for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 12:58:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67EF483DE6 for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 12:58:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp1.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=protonmail.com Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pR1DH7ewwFc5 for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 12:58:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-40130.protonmail.ch (mail-40130.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.130]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EEC183DC6 for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 12:58:29 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 12:58:19 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1621342706; bh=nD6u7Fy4R9n2mkrN8FVxASKdISVK9L7J2D8QzT0TZ5w=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=QHOZqBuxOYonKnCQ9CxDMjk1MxdTUBdl+mc0vbMyVhENuGZmEHhy2NB4gtLAhkdpT omVSDBCP7brZtWGCdaEPCxV8+uyyXB6OINNSf2m+N8l/2H8qzYH0UIJIXylfNeRM4Z C5SIhuF9zCJiGX0hUagSd8/sCjxbCNi8ta5/roXc= To: ZmnSCPxj , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion From: ZmnSCPxj Reply-To: ZmnSCPxj Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <864F983C-841D-4334-94F4-5A9F7D617B70@powx.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: marshall ball Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Low Energy Bitcoin PoW X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 12:58:30 -0000 Good morning Michael, > Good morning Michael, > > > Nothing in a dynamic system like PoW mining can be 100% anticipated, fo= r example there might be advanced in manufacturing of chips which are paten= ted and so on. > > It sounds like your take is that this means no improvements can ever be= made by any mechanism, however conservative. > > Not at all. > > Small-enough improvements over long-enough periods of time are expected a= nd anticipated --- that is why there exists a difficulty adjustment mechani= sm. > What is risky if a large-enough improvement over a short-enough time that= overwhelms the difficulty adjustment mechanism. > ASICBOOST was a massive enough improvement that it could be argued to pot= entially overwhelm this mechanism if it was not openly allowed for all mine= rs. Or to put it in another perspective: * Small improvements to PoW mining are tolerated by Bitcoin. * Such improvements are expected to be common. * Large improvements to PoW mining are potential extinction events for Bitc= oin, due to massive centralization risk. * Such improvements are expected to be *rare* but *not* nonexistent. * The number of possible circuit configurations is bounded by physical limi= ts (matter is quantized, excssively-large chips are infeasible, etc.), thus= the number of expected optimizations of a particular overall algorithm are= bounded. Suppose two manufacturers find two different small improvements to PoW mini= ng. In all likelihood, "the sum is better than its parts" and if the two have a= cross-licensing deal, they can outcompete their *other* competition. Further, even if some small competitor violates the patent, the improvement= may be small enough that the patent owner may decide the competitor is too= small to bother with all the legal fees involved to enforce the patent. Thus, small improvements to PoW mining are expected to eventually spread wi= dely, and that is what the difficulty adjustment mechanism exists to modula= te. But suppose a third manufacturer develops an ASICBOOST-level optimization o= f whatever the PoW mining algorithm is. That manufacturer has no incentive to cross-license, since it can dominate = the competition without cross-licensing a bunch of smaller optimizations (t= hat may not even add up to compete against the ASICBOOST-level optimization= ). And any small competitor that violates patent will be enforced against, due= to the major improvement that the large optimization has and the massive m= onopolistic advantage the ASICBOOST-level optimization patent holder would = have. SHA256d-on-Bitcoin-block-header has already uncovered ASICBOOST, and thus t= he number of possible other large optimizations is that much smaller --- th= e number of possible optimizations is bounded by physical constraints. Thus, the risk of a black-swan event where a new optimization of SHA256d-on= -Bitcoin-block-header is large enough to massively centralize mining is red= uced, compared to every other alternative PoW algorithm, which is an import= ant reason to avoid changing PoW as much as possible, without some really s= erious study (which you might be engaged in --- I am not enough of a mathis= t to follow your papers). We are more likely to want to change SHA256 for SHA3 on the txid and Merkle= trees than on the PoW. Regards, ZmnSCPxj