Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VsdB5-0007du-TP for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 18:46:04 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.192.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.192.177; envelope-from=gmaxwell@gmail.com; helo=mail-pd0-f177.google.com; Received: from mail-pd0-f177.google.com ([209.85.192.177]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1VsdB5-0006j2-1j for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 18:46:03 +0000 Received: by mail-pd0-f177.google.com with SMTP id q10so5671463pdj.22 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 10:45:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.164.131 with SMTP id yq3mr22123653pbb.56.1387219557135; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 10:45:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.81.170 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 10:45:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1387190808.12225.60115997.547B23B6@webmail.messagingengine.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 10:45:57 -0800 Message-ID: From: Gregory Maxwell To: Wladimir Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (gmaxwell[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: plan99.net] -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.192.177 listed in list.dnswl.org] X-Headers-End: 1VsdB5-0006j2-1j Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Fees UI warning X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 18:46:04 -0000 On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:37 AM, Wladimir wrote: > What we should really do is: > - Use deterministic wallets. Making regular backups becomes optional (to > retain label and transaction data and such) instead of mandatory. > - Don't support importing private keys. Replace the importing of private > keys by a "sweep" function. I'd add a third: make structured key-management possible, e.g. At a minimum: Users should be able to hit a "retire keys / keys possibly compromised" button, which creates a new seed, forces the user to make a backup (and allows more than one), then switches to the new seed and moves all their coins. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: > I don't know how to solve this. Badly designed software that looks appeal= ing > will always be a danger. "We didn't say it couldn't be done=E2=80=94 We said don't do it!" Part of the challenge here is that the service does a number of things people _really_ shouldn't be doing=E2=80=94 things so dangerous that I certainly won't do them=E2=80=94 and as a result to not use the site turn i= nto big education efforts rather than just "use this other thing (that also does the wrong headed thing you want to do)".