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From: vjudeu@gazeta.pl
To: Erik Aronesty <erik@q32.com>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 18:19:01 +0200
Message-Id: <158873530-26c4ca5223c12fad28089c0ab56e9528@pmq8v.m5r2.onet>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] tx max fee
Precedence: list

> possible to change tx "max fee"  to output amounts?

Is it possible? Yes. Should we do that? My first thought was "maybe", but a=
fter thinking more about it, I would say "no", here is why:

Starting point: 1 BTC on some output.
Current situation: A single transaction moving 0.99999000 BTC as fees, and =
creating 1000 satoshis as some output (I know, allowed dust values are lowe=
r and depend on address type, but let's say it is 1k sats to make things si=
mpler).

And then, there is a room for other solutions, for example your rule, menti=
oned in other posts, like this one: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/piper=
mail/bitcoin-dev/2023-May/021626.html

> probably easier just to reject any transaction where the fee is higher th=
an the sum of the outputs

Possible situation after introducing your proposal, step-by-step:

1) Someone wants to move 1 BTC, and someone wants to pay 0.99999000 BTC as =
fees. Assuming your rules are on consensus level, the first transaction cre=
ates 0.5 BTC output and 0.5 BTC fee.
2) That person still wants to move 0.5 remaining BTC, and still is willing =
to pay 0.49999000 BTC as fees. Guess what will happen: you will see another=
 transaction, creating 0.25 BTC output, and paying 0.25 BTC fee.
...
N) Your proposal replaced one transaction, consuming maybe one kilobyte, wi=
th a lot of transactions, doing exactly the same, but where fees are distri=
buted between many transactions.

Before thinking about improving that system, consider one simple thing: is =
it possible to avoid "max fee rule", no matter in what way it will be defin=
ed? Because as shown above, the answer seems to be "yes", because you can a=
lways replace a single transaction moving 1 BTC as fees with multiple trans=
actions, each paying one satoshi per virtual byte, and then instead of cons=
uming around one kilobyte, it would consume around 1 MvB per 0.01 BTC, so 1=
00 MvB per 1 BTC mentioned in the example above.


On 2023-05-08 13:55:18 user Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@list=
s.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
possible to change tx "max fee"=C2=A0 to output amounts?


seems like the only use case that would support such a tx is spam/dos type =
stuff that satoshi warned about


its not a fix for everything, but it seems could help a bit with certain at=
tacks=C2=A0