Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 437C1C002A for ; Wed, 24 May 2023 06:36:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AD1A61569 for ; Wed, 24 May 2023 06:36:00 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 0AD1A61569 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, BITCOIN_XPRIO=1.004, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zcV-TfOsd3ea for ; Wed, 24 May 2023 06:35:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 00:07:48 by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 6491660F67 Received: from p3plwbeout25-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtp25-06-2.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [216.69.139.22]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6491660F67 for ; Wed, 24 May 2023 06:35:59 +0000 (UTC) X-MW-NODE: X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=M9mIlw8s c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=646dae7b a=dFffxkGDbYo3ckkjzRcKYg==:117 a=dFffxkGDbYo3ckkjzRcKYg==:17 a=sMXno3cL4iQA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=8ZuyVamAtZxZWhRBrRUA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=zgiPjhLxNE0A:10 a=ZXulRonScM0A:10 a=zZCYzV9kfG8A:10 a=f4VazZPBthoVHkO_bYWy:22 X-SECURESERVER-ACCT: burak@buraks.blog X-SID: 1hyiqPz56aJj2 Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 09:28:08 +0300 (TRT) From: Burak Keceli To: ZmnSCPxj Message-ID: <1333267652.1427392.1684909688735@eu1.myprofessionalmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <1300890009.1516890.1684742043892@eu1.myprofessionalmail.com> <94d_XdPjU7_erTbusSTbsSWNNL3Wgx61scF_EknkwXp_ywmCLJ5jc13RVlTF_gpdZG5scUU_4z27qPykXQjLESE1m06CEJbsCha13QdqeFY=@protonmail.com> <2021501773.1219513.1684816284977@eu1.myprofessionalmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v8.12.73 X-Originating-IP: 217.110.132.66 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfAw0ypjFRbYkpzeZ3CZ0g1Zv4NXAOajzCHPkxMNRwmL9SYq5oCsWSGd4KZMzxxycEhoJ0xbTL/3Cw8Ki5xUa1cANhevYnkY6OFZdFakFo1Dr02BzqXwv M8N21lu7gkX071oN6Z8XXGPSqqbybXGqmW7Q1/pQhQBBQ0kiR7c3VJnsp6NMxgdKY9z/R6aT1iqfMC6FlF89EUP8EDtUgIZzIErwQMfOlLgKmYCuA8gi+07r 3MwCVNTFX1d4Oe1XNLm1EC0Ayh+DppcGDDQO5dCjFA37s3PiTmxcUUGGBGNTNEfU X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 24 May 2023 09:36:57 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Ark: An Alternative Privacy-preserving Second Layer Solution X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 06:36:00 -0000 > You can also do the same in Lightning, with the same risk profile: the LS= P opens a 0-conf channel to you, you receive over Lightning, send out over = Lightning again, without waiting for onchain confirmations. This is not correct. If an LSP opens a zero-conf channel to me, I cannot re= ceive over lightning immediately because I have to wait for that channel to= confirm before revealing my preimage for the payment. If I don=E2=80=99t, = LSP takes the sender=E2=80=99s money yet double-spends my channel. This is not the case with Ark. Ark ensures "absolute atomicity" by using AT= LCs instead of HTLCs. Users can receive payments and forward them further w= ithout waiting for on-chain confirmations. A double-spend attempt breaks th= e entire atomicity. An ASP cannot redeem senders=E2=80=99 vTXO(s) if they d= ouble-spend recipients' vTXO(s).