Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1XGCUl-0007U5-Ar for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sat, 09 Aug 2014 19:40:03 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from nl.grid.coop ([50.7.166.116]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1XGCUk-0007x1-7x for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sat, 09 Aug 2014 19:40:03 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 1000) by nl.grid.coop with local; Sat, 09 Aug 2014 14:39:54 -0500 id 000000000006E26A.0000000053E6790A.00001A89 Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 14:39:54 -0500 From: Troy Benjegerdes To: Mike Hearn Message-ID: <20140809193954.GI22640@nl.grid.coop> References: <201408072345.45363.luke@dashjr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -0.7 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain X-Headers-End: 1XGCUk-0007x1-7x Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Miners MiTM X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2014 19:40:03 -0000 On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 11:42:52AM +0200, Mike Hearn wrote: > > > > AFAIK the only protection is SSL + certificate validation on client side. > > However certificate revocation and updates in miners are pain in the ass, > > that's why majority of pools (mine including) don't want to play with > > that... > > > > Why would miners need updates? If they implement the standard SSL > infrastructure you can change certificates and keys without needing to > update miners. > > Besides, when it comes to financial services SSL is essential, I'm kind of > surprised it wasn't already used everywhere. I wouldn't use an online bank > that didn't support SSL, I would see it as a a sign of serious problems. > Heck I wouldn't even use webmail that didn't support SSL these days. Because turning on SSL gives pool operators a way to hack your miners. http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/openssl-patches-critical-vulnerabilities-two-months-after-heartbleed Just because SSL is the answer for financial services regulated security theatre, where fraud means you just roll-back the transaction, it does not mean it is actually a good cryptographic solution. There are far better mechanisms that could be implemented using ECDSA keys (aka bitcoin addresses) to authenticate both miners and pools, but the problem is there zero economic incentive to do so. As long as the BGP/SSL/zero-day-of-the-week man-in-the middle fraud cost is lower than the engineering cost to do some real cryptography and code audits, we'll keep having new 'security patches' every couple of months.