Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9212786 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:17:54 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wi0-f173.google.com (mail-wi0-f173.google.com [209.85.212.173]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD4B11AB for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:17:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhh20 with SMTP id hh20so166330133wib.0 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 13:17:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=LscrtWPkqHrwzSdwMAu53PZ9TFxtsUDAxV0LKONbetM=; b=YXOVBURj5M65kymKVm266s38ynA3M3Y/VYNFHQMOdQ5OOcDQ/APwaWoxvZ0/bQe92M ojnlma1kMCIH7i391J4VAshc2At0o0k3rlQkNrdeueq7lURaIWYA/aZeEkSSHNSwVQ9R 8Bg4TyLKSwCCmnoizK0DQxjtdyGxUObJJ0S8vniSroPa/hAHCv3A8H28+JtVHTAcMrlq sQtWAAlhmMQp0QGvPko7kNONyknT7wnXa6JV/x3Lt2WpAdboerAnRjjnBUMHh5I2z75W 3EcNSa43TWFRTpju/MgXGDGcj7donlN7/xOcHx4jDrsQYJjMCUc69PLdWA1gCGjfa/KU 0O9A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk3Y/QrTazAWIK4seqzPKKzCmFpfSFgQSEUx8Oi4UDi0mUt3iBaqJEDi79NZ4vUd72IP3lX MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.21.175 with SMTP id w15mr28880867wie.58.1439237872104; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 13:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.31.230 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 13:17:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1725491.c810VbMBxP@coldstorage> References: <8185694.hShCHQnpze@coldstorage> <20150808085451.4689995.38052.4163@thomaszander.se> <1725491.c810VbMBxP@coldstorage> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 22:17:52 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= To: Thomas Zander Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] trust X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:17:54 -0000 On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Thomas Zander via bitcoin-dev wrote: > On Saturday 8. August 2015 12.54.36 Adam Back wrote: >> On 8 August 2015 at 09:54, Thomas Zander wrote: >> > I didn't say off-chain, and gave an example of on-chain usecase with >> > trusted middleman. >> That's basically the definition of off-chain. When we say MtGox or >> coinbase etc are off-chain transactions, that is because a middle man >> has the private keys to the coins and gave you an IOU of some kind. > > I'm so sorry to have to correct you again, and please don't feel bad about > misreading my post twice. > > Sending something to another Bitcoin on-chain user is really on-chain. Please > believe me when I say that I actually understand my own example. Adam, I think he means a multisig escrow transaction where the escrow is trusted by both parties, and other examples like that. But I don't see how that is relevant, allowing trust to be involved in different ways is a feature, but it's optional. I think the point "you don't need to trust anyone to use Bitcoin" remains.