Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EFFFC002D for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 15:22:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A198832D1 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 15:22:27 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.802 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp1.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=petertodd.org header.b="G1XyDf9M"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b="cDV22YOm" Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZgzpMQtCvEWY for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 15:22:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.25]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3215583267 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 15:22:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA893200919; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:22:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=petertodd.org; h=cc:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject :subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1655220142; x=1655306542; bh=u2Kuq7C+Q0 SD/xk3BYgUgQYBaeE0RM5GB5iUxhx0Mgs=; b=G1XyDf9MjvGBxM+MplpHAGvZy5 S4uWK06horICMxf4CCZR2imGBLDVCBx8LtusnCMbAIu/Ezg7HpDmIe5PfMkORQLp /wOt6kFu4jpjyaC2PLENmevoOUShoni1/Y/+2JHMQL9p35qePZJmzX58TaB4+cpf mPWbbXevFRtFjww5civKaIlJiWNIzAMMl6y8WJ1Qhw40y0Q8mXdHJFCsO3JIXSyK tdHRJEOq8yfhkaGx730o62C+lJ3ln/PYd63SAkDM3s3WZHXZEEFXVvE82jajAe2W ToZYyJ8vpEqaIxz9gjtDAS3JmwSrU/sAZWST9Xam4e+/+J9C7UH+8VE/Xi6Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:date:feedback-id :feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to :x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm2; t=1655220142; x=1655306542; bh=u2Kuq7C+Q0SD/xk3BYgUgQYBaeE0 RM5GB5iUxhx0Mgs=; b=cDV22YOm7raIVUn9xwWW5gpciCdUCETWQiwzOCJeZfPX B5BSncFDnpxwZ+GZGtQcTh92wNcIhwCAsKqsai4vcF1N34Xf7DVx9l0uvTkd1m/S gJIgiUmk0E3ciBS/6+XtaMJLPYZpmn+HJ/hfBlLe8VihQglkMesjD+F/Etn6p7+1 WxmeRxP++wG4wX+7s4je6Bj7rn09/I4Cakf+zzxXcvvj0bO+B2IAxtNk2FmzE7j1 Ld8QH6ohx1jio0BLl0IDS7G7KgH/fM120Pj5THhbiACbVRBmDN2yCyliUiwb/Yta Azm5uKYv5WGeGf/+fcPbBvjZbuBQzrmwA5YpT6AWwA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrudduledgkeeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggujgesghdtre ertddtvdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgvrhcuvfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthho uggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeivddvleeikeejueekgfdtleefgeehhe elffeuheetgefhleevjeefleegvefffeenucffohhmrghinhepphgvthgvrhhtohguugdr ohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe hushgvrhesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 08D2F20D53; Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:22:21 -0400 From: Peter Todd To: "Undiscussed Horrific Abuse, One Victim of Many" , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gzsI3QEt38UF9OFL" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Why OpenTimestamps does not "linearize" its transactions X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 15:22:27 -0000 --gzsI3QEt38UF9OFL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 07:53:29AM -0400, Undiscussed Horrific Abuse, One V= ictim of Many via bitcoin-dev wrote: > I was privately asked for more opinions. I am sharing them publicly below: >=20 > It's always been clear that OTS proves longness of duration but not > shortness. It doesn't demonstrate that an earlier work was not > published, because it hashes each document hash with private material > the author must separately publicize. Any unpublished private material > could be an earlier equivalent to a public proof. >=20 > the reason i call this 'designed to be broken' is that it lets people > rewrite history to their stories by republishing other people's > documents under different contexts. See "What Can and Can't Timestamps Prove?": https://petertodd.org/2016/opentimestamps-announcement#what-can-and-cant-ti= mestamps-prove OpenTimestamps makes a trade-off: timestamps have significant limitations a= s to what they're able to prove. But in exchange, they have exceptionally good scalability, making them essentially free to use. Timestamps are also much easier to add on to existing processes and systems such as Git repositories. Schemes that prove uniqueness require much more engineering and redesign wo= rk to actually accomplish anything. --=20 https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org --gzsI3QEt38UF9OFL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEFcyURjhyM68BBPYTJIFAPaXwkfsFAmKop6oACgkQJIFAPaXw kfumYAf/d9yDw0yvLxeDU3tjt5qGGjYdFYqCHfdAM8Map1vwgtZbx9vW7wUuGKch /EXgg0bDGSON4arna4s1tYkR9pQKJ0nN9OvEkt6vS7114tYOClJigUKaQPkUX4Z9 3D9IYDtk0/JdPYJPOK9M74gDtxvRcoGIlappxCw0BFOxXcD/vaeKjPqcSWNVY9RZ JWgLqNWXKUu1joGZ1MrAe17u1Qte5UJ2SxdmdcBgLXFtYbV8JKDMn9RmT9mEyA5g sxDxSeuZvw8Je2c2fGDH/MFRc5HH8P6hwapoWCI2KAeADSklzrQZy4bhtmkmNlds sHqrbJIV47ANulrWPOMKHrmYq3yJ5A== =ldkJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gzsI3QEt38UF9OFL--