Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3CCC007D for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:19:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9010141BD3 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:19:00 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org 9010141BD3 Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 header.b=loSUxL4X X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gAtcwQe0PG56 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:18:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org 0237041BA6 Received: from mail-lf1-x130.google.com (mail-lf1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::130]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0237041BA6 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:18:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf1-x130.google.com with SMTP id t1so15237346lft.8 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 05:18:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=pSKcu/i10A+yTWuT7ANvMUMVrI4h375XUIxlcUl9VJc=; b=loSUxL4XIr+gCLsnu6akRBFrbTKDcoAH0/Q20EHm/DNP+KkLsftYTQod54k+bssJGj EVYRsux1RqxI/wxda94Bdp6rD5ZcPYICoR0gVV+n6ADecUCvq/FsRii7wUsg+OI+hokr 7600QCTbeevUP0p/ddKH0TBbni8wRTzlICsCD9jgRpxxa1lvwEjdmC5hTo4gXVYD6ntD J9JsVhgmMQzmYOonYF4oH2DJanF55yyM8iZMoGUDZhSe068cQDgjvtUqleuxwksSH9op DpaI6CeMuSDsGInUFwwO22Qf4Q3fJv7rjq4AietsIWRxgas+fjShcgLn0bdtFRe0Z5KT Yimg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=pSKcu/i10A+yTWuT7ANvMUMVrI4h375XUIxlcUl9VJc=; b=g0+ReEzg3pAGgNAQ66edhzAJ1bikJC11nBwUOxOiIcf1imMtMGl2v3LQfuvdHyGAKF Q2X/lKV+eGbE/yEMciHYSAAc+QRYwjBES9n2S+zSHlDIWmg0PuzdDlszqi6LVfbjbkzK bB6Ga0sc4/PVppNitEzAJq6bdWkd0Coc4Nuf6CTfdyS7gyguZRkdb9dlI1NehPEUPf+Q RK6RaO6VFjzUlQ3HPLTjvPxpLWg08gemh1Rrwl0MtPgj5oAIoCuhBfwjHxtL+GsF3vE7 UvAUte1g0kSUe9h8qufahAg+zIg/D9lCwx1RKk/hFOVZWlyQ3iD2W1i+yVSw7CiShyRF GqNA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+HSdbpZAS/5EwUpCrLSgn4ngGIG5wPo6dLsfv9J9NVuV93W2D5 3kNhwM4WOO6pG+biDYtETPDZOnW/aPrXBHn6zNv9fgFbuWj3 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1tcWWu2MpaMZ4vLO306WhTXgDk4CyyWomGehElHzto0sHam74EN+6l6z0EeUR0mLJ6CXVUlBW5Ai1WSSR5BB+M= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3b87:b0:489:dddb:a483 with SMTP id g7-20020a0565123b8700b00489dddba483mr1746816lfv.107.1657714736676; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 05:18:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6617a48d-15b9-699c-42f3-35b32245102e@thinlink.com> In-Reply-To: <6617a48d-15b9-699c-42f3-35b32245102e@thinlink.com> From: Erik Aronesty Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 08:18:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: Tom Harding , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000004c43105e3aeca43" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:21:40 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Security problems with relying on transaction fees for security X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:19:00 -0000 --00000000000004c43105e3aeca43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Bitcoin doesn't rely on fees. It relys on users protecting the network out of self interest - running nodes now - mining later It has always been incentivised by holders acting out of self interest If large holders allocating a small percentage to mining to protect their interest, that's all Bitcoin needs Although I can think of other protocols that work that way and people don't like them On Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 4:06 AM Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > On 7/11/22 15:26, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > > > Anyway, designing protocols for "price go up forever" hopium is a bad > idea. > > Yet that is the design, and it's a good one. It is equivalent to > relying on bitcoin to steadily grow in utility vs. fiat currencies. > > If it fails to do that, there's no point anyway. > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --00000000000004c43105e3aeca43 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bitcoin doesn't rely on fees.=C2=A0 It relys on users= protecting the network out of self interest

- running nodes now
- mining later

It has always been incenti= vised by holders acting out of self interest

If large holders allocating a small percentage to mini= ng to protect their interest, that's all Bitcoin needs

Although I can think of other protocols = that work that way and people don't like them






On= Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 4:06 AM Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation= .org> wrote:
On 7/11/22 15:2= 6, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>
> Anyway, designing protocols for "price go up forever" hopium= is a bad idea.

Yet that is the design, and it's a good one.=C2=A0 It is equivalent to =
relying on bitcoin to steadily grow in utility vs. fiat currencies.

If it fails to do that, there's no point anyway.

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bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
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