Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WNOSH-0005xK-5B for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:18:57 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.219.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.47; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com; helo=mail-oa0-f47.google.com; Received: from mail-oa0-f47.google.com ([209.85.219.47]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1WNOSF-0004gU-JV for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:18:57 +0000 Received: by mail-oa0-f47.google.com with SMTP id i11so8674135oag.6 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 08:18:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.39.103 with SMTP id o7mr11979185oek.38.1394551130225; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 08:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.71.231 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 08:18:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <531DFDF8.80008@gmail.com> <531E52FE.5090107@jerviss.org> <531E5454.1030601@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 16:18:50 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: MBh28-HpvrEYZoVQ9hdMoGRGV9A Message-ID: From: Mike Hearn To: Gary Rowe Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013cba44bd070e04f4563cd1 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mh.in.england[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1WNOSF-0004gU-JV Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Multisign payment protocol? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:18:57 -0000 --089e013cba44bd070e04f4563cd1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 You can follow HDW progress in bitcoinj on this branch: https://github.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj/commits/keychain I've been working on it for a couple of months now. Electrum (Thomas V) is also making good progress, and Trezor already uses HD wallets. I think most popular end user wallets except blockchain.info and Bitcoin Core will support HDW soon enough. At any rate, as Gavin said already, the best way to make a feature you want happen is just to write it. Devrandom is already working on a watchdog service, as is another group (TrustedCoin), and that's an obvious use for multisig/p2sh. They have API's already, it's just a case of standardising them once we get more experience. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Gary Rowe wrote: > Speaking from the MultiBit perspective, all future protocol development > (with the exception of critical security and network compatibility fixes) > will be put into a HD wallet. Over time we want to see "MultiBit Classic" > gracefully retire and be fully superseded. > > Right now, HD is not out there but there is a lot of work going on between > wallet developers to harmonise on HD implementation through BIP32/39. The > result of that work should see a significant migration away from random > private keys. > > Thus it would appear likely that by the time this protocol sees widespread > use the presence of HD is likely to be rising fast or possibly dominant. > > At MultiBit we anticipate a release of HD code within 2 months, with > private beta occurring within weeks. Trezor and Electrum may be earlier > than this. As far as I am aware both Hive and Haskoin are committed to HD. > > If anyone wants early access to the alpha code, let me know and I'll make > the arrangements. > > > On 11 March 2014 14:44, Jeff Garzik wrote: > >> (#include ) >> >> Right now, HD is hot air. Let us end the pie-in-the-sky assumptions >> about how HD will save the day, with zero code to back it up. Bitcoin >> Wallet purportedly fails to rotate addresses, a privacy ugly, because >> of this Waiting For Godot situation. An attempt to add a simple, >> stateless RPC stalled because we are all Waiting For Godot, also: >> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3520 >> >> Until the major user wallets and bitcoind have -basic- HD support, it >> is premature to build anything on top of HD. We really have no clue >> at this juncture how difficult will be the HD rollout. >> >> -- >> Jeff Garzik >> Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist >> BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >> _______________________________________________ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their > applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > --089e013cba44bd070e04f4563cd1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You can follow HDW progress in bitcoinj on this branch:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
I've been working on it for a couple of mo= nths now. Electrum (Thomas V) is also making good progress, and Trezor alre= ady uses HD wallets. I think most popular end user wallets except blockchain.info and Bitcoin Core will suppo= rt HDW soon enough.

At any rate, as Gavin said already, the best way to mak= e a feature you want happen is just to write it. Devrandom is already worki= ng on a watchdog service, as is another group (TrustedCoin), and that's= an obvious use for multisig/p2sh. They have API's already, it's ju= st a case of standardising them once we get more experience.




On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Gary Rowe <g.rowe= @froot.co.uk> wrote:
Speaking from the MultiBit = perspective, all future protocol development (with the exception of critica= l security and network compatibility fixes) will be put into a HD wallet. O= ver time we want to see "MultiBit Classic" gracefully retire and = be fully superseded.

Right now, HD is not out there but there is a lot of work go= ing on between wallet developers to harmonise on HD implementation through = BIP32/39. The result of that work should see a significant migration away f= rom random private keys.=C2=A0

Thus it would appear likely that by the time this = protocol sees widespread use the presence of HD is likely to be rising fast= or possibly dominant.=C2=A0

At MultiBit we = anticipate a release of HD code within 2 months, with private beta occurrin= g within weeks. Trezor and Electrum may be earlier than this. As far as I a= m aware both Hive and Haskoin are committed to HD.

If anyone wants early access to the alpha code, let me = know and I'll make the arrangements.
<= div class=3D"h5">


On 11 March 2014 14:44, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com> wr= ote:
(#include <rant.h>)

Right now, HD is hot air. =C2=A0Let us end the pie-in-the-sky assumptions about how HD will save the day, with zero code to back it up. =C2=A0Bitcoin=
Wallet purportedly fails to rotate addresses, a privacy ugly, because
of this Waiting For Godot situation. =C2=A0An attempt to add a simple,
stateless RPC stalled because we are all Waiting For Godot, also:
= https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3520

Until the major user wallets and bitcoind have -basic- HD support, it
is premature to build anything on top of HD. =C2=A0We really have no clue at this juncture how difficult will be the HD rollout.

--
Jeff Garzik
Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist
BitPay, Inc. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://bitpay.com/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases = and their
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
http://p.sf= .net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


-----------------------------------------------------------= -------------------
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases = and their
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
http://p.sf= .net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
_____________________________________________= __
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


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