Return-Path: Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::133]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C01F1C000E for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 08:23:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997A3400ED for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 08:23:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.85 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.85 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4URT96KSqeFI for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 08:23:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-oi1-x22f.google.com (mail-oi1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22f]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8853C400BE for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 08:23:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oi1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id t40so21103179oiw.8 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 01:23:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sPcdi9plosHirG7YPp92pnkc7kEhJBgycSCjEnJxNNo=; b=uiItMKrTBot06J9FZ0W3hj+uUg0esxIG+nvX0r0BV+5UZfj2tVQlWt6Lte3fyYrWCz Chiwhjm4AnDnG0AhMVdSbV8GWLkVBseXc0+RAccKnR2jtCiWA1tlHM/huNkGQlxOHyfR un4yXp2p/hpNzpTVxRvRVdxQZAl1gs0wXC5JvsKxZxV9le3kuT1V1OOXYMFkUQgCzCPV swepxuCT0R1h6OSMvdIlGAUFlkzt/s0hnY2YR9wzpzRHvptyuud3HhPJiR7uNfYF5QdP pM6rREsEuHw5qSV6uWp9c2IwtxgoFmTmnTU7N0w4ebfnm3aXeAav51X2fL0PStjYj+Sp VblQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sPcdi9plosHirG7YPp92pnkc7kEhJBgycSCjEnJxNNo=; b=jfkOYDliGEOZY7wcaQ9A6oRZrTxzVSC9sGXdgUWJ0/xldMEVIvAOHaDJlq/TkNqk26 6W9Xj8BJjEF7+XVzcGLUvFeJbj+pO88ovQJPDPyDlCEavJ426q456nAPACNTgmcHBjf0 CkSLCrt43Am4CubwrEwihJgoScLreRWpPQl7Hpqq/XlEllZZ55M0wsEHQ0DlYqLmL7TP dCxOHd/03ZHlwvinEFHn2HKXQDpTj3aCokYmKQ8JbwanIKAqMopl4c6u9HKKFAe1RVOT qoyDG5uA6ZYLkHE0dWrXzwobwx5Mu9DI+MBylwBpAxT413V8NM2MI0hc63nSVrp6wpIV QzCQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533gdEQNB31cGzHrLVV3KHsn45p/O9374mpP/DtIU0H1tODZSlu7 8oZQhRFhHBtvv9BqDM4qB+oKhNFNndNv6Nk1Bx4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzZY0zgNB1GxRfUJ7wRVv47AzW/zvm2ID7VS0D28z8D2RIFuG4rreRMthyyfpNNeeRAgpzgeok7pHUMOFX2qAA= X-Received: by 2002:a54:408b:: with SMTP id i11mr10177978oii.67.1624868591524; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 01:23:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6leV9mViysrSOipJqrCM3wbqBOMO2gWI3BuEn0VKmaDf7GpawWyUIWLu-ddypMri7YeVmw94HNSaQYYp8fIkjZ0S3OtFTPQa6h9pkLprKDI=@protonmail.com> <9c2cec326adee1f4d4152e2195da0e7b@riseup.net> In-Reply-To: From: James Hilliard Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 02:23:00 -0600 Message-ID: To: raymo@riseup.net, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Boost Bitcoin circulation, Million Transactions Per Second with stronger privacy X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 08:23:13 -0000 On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 2:09 AM raymo via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Hi ZmnSCPxj, > > Why you get the signal =E2=80=9Ctrust the Gazin wallet=E2=80=9D? > Sabu is a protocol and the Gazin wallet will be an implementation of > that protocol. We will implement it in react-native language to support > both Android and iPhone. Of course it will be open source and GPL3. > Here is the repository and yet is empty :) > https://github.com/raymaot/Gazin > > I wonder why you do not look carefully into the proposal! IMHO the Sabu > will be far better than Lightning. > Can=E2=80=99t you see the fact that in Sabu you do not need open and clos= e > channels ever? Can you imagine only this feature how dramatically > decrease the transactions cost and how increase the distribution of > nodes and improve privacy level? it makes every mobile wallet act like a > lightning network. > Did you note the fact that in Sabu protocol there is no routing? And the > only people knew about a transaction are issuer and creditor? No one > else won=E2=80=99t be aware of transactions and million transactions per = second > can be sent and received and repeal dynamically without any footprint on > any DLT? > > The English is not my mother language and probably my paper is not a > smooth and easy to read paper, but these are not good excuse to not even > reading a technical paper carefully and before understanding it or at > least trying to understanding it start to complaining. Considering that you have not effectively addressed any of the inaccurate assumptions made regarding how mining works that I pointed out earlier I assume your proposal is not viable in practice. See: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-June/019091.ht= ml > > > All the benefits your scheme claims, are derived from the trust assumpt= ion > No, All the benefits my scheme claims, are derived from economically > rational decision of both issuer and creditors. > > Regards > Raymo > > > > On 2021-06-28 05:20, ZmnSCPxj wrote: > > Good morning Raymo, > > > >> > >> It looks you already missed the entire design of Sabu and its > >> restrictions. First of all, the Gazin wallet always controls the Sabu > >> restrictions for every transaction in order to consider it as a valid > >> transaction in a valid deal. That is, the creditor wallet controls the > >> MT and GT in first place. > > > > Stop right there. > > > > From the above, what I get is, "trust the Gazin wallet". > > Thus, the suggestion to just use Coinbase. > > At least it has existed longer and has more current users that trust > > it, rather than this Gazin thing. > > > > > > Is Gazin open-source? > > > > * If Gazin is open-source, I could download the source code, make a > > local copy that gives me a separate copy of the keys, and use the keys > > to sign any transaction I want. > > * If Gazin is not open-source, then why should I trust the Gazin > > wallet until my incoming funds to an open-source wallet I control have > > been confirmed deeply? > > > > Lightning is still superior because: > > > > * It can be open-sourced completely and even though I have keys to my > > onchain funds, I *still* cannot steal the funds of my counterparty. > > * Even if I connect my open-source node to a node with a closed-source > > implementation, I know I can rely on receives from that node without > > waiting for the transaction to be confirmed deeply. > > > > > > All the benefits your scheme claims, are derived from the trust > > assumption, which is uninteresting, we already have those, they are > > called custodial wallets. > > Lightning allows for non-custodiality while achieving high global TPS > > and low fees. > > And a central idea of Lightning is the requirement to use an n-of-n to > > form smaller sub-moneys from the global money. > > > > Regards, > > ZmnSCPxj > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev