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From: Mark Friedenbach <mark@friedenbach.org>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 11:43:19 -0400
Message-ID: <CAOG=w-sBi50zj725BV1urLokF7+hxiQzvH5AAebUZ62_92nbLg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mike Hearn <hearn@vinumeris.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134c792ebca3805202fa03c
Cc: bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Bitcoin conference micro-report
Precedence: list

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Replying to this specific email only because it is the most recent in my
mail client.

Does this conversation have to happen on-list? It seems to have wandered
incredibly far off-topic.

On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 5:25 AM, Mike Hearn via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Also, in the US, despite overwhelming resistance on a broad scale,
>> legislation continues to be presented which would violate the 2nd amendment
>> right to keep and bear arms.
>
>
> And yet the proposed legislation goes nowhere, and the USA continues to
> stand alone in having the first world's weakest gun control laws.
>
> You are just supporting my point with this example. Obama would like to
> restrict guns, but can't, because they are too popular (in the USA).
>
> The comparison to BitTorrent is likewise weak: governments hardly care
> about piracy. They care enough to pass laws occasionally, but not enough to
> put serious effort into enforcement. Wake me up when the USA establishes a
> Copyright Enforcement Administration with the same budget and powers as the
> DEA.
>
> Internet based black markets exist only because governments tolerate them
> (for now). A ban on Tor, Bitcoin or both would send them back to the
> pre-2011 state where they were virtually non-existent. Governments tolerate
> this sort of abuse only because they believe, I think correctly, that
> Bitcoin can have great benefits for their ordinary voters and for now are
> willing to let the tech industry experiment.
>
> But for that state of affairs to continue, the benefits must actually
> appear. That requires growth.
>
> I think there's a difference between natural growth and the kind of growth
>> that's being proposed by bank-backed start-ups and pro-censorship entities.
>>
>
> What difference? Are you saying the people who come to Bitcoin because of
> a startup are somehow less "natural" than other users?
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Replying to this specific email only because it is th=
e most recent in my mail client.<br><br></div>Does this conversation have t=
o happen on-list? It seems to have wandered incredibly far off-topic.<br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 2=
0, 2015 at 5:25 AM, Mike Hearn via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoi=
n-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><span class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204=
);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Also, in=C2=A0the US, despite o=
verwhelming resistance on a broad scale, legislation=C2=A0continues to be p=
resented which would violate the 2nd amendment right to=C2=A0keep and bear =
arms.</blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>And yet the proposed legislati=
on goes nowhere, and the USA continues to stand alone in having the first w=
orld&#39;s weakest gun control laws.</div><div><br></div><div>You are just =
supporting my point with this example. Obama would like to restrict guns, b=
ut can&#39;t, because they are too popular (in the USA).</div><div><br></di=
v><div>The comparison to BitTorrent is likewise weak: governments hardly ca=
re about piracy. They care enough to pass laws occasionally, but not enough=
 to put serious effort into enforcement. Wake me up when the USA establishe=
s a Copyright Enforcement Administration with the same budget and powers as=
 the DEA.</div><div><br></div><div>Internet based black markets exist only =
because governments tolerate them (for now). A ban on Tor, Bitcoin or both =
would send them back to the pre-2011 state where they were virtually non-ex=
istent. Governments tolerate this sort of abuse only because they believe, =
I think correctly, that Bitcoin can have great benefits for their ordinary =
voters and for now are willing to let the tech industry experiment.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>But for that state of affairs to continue, the benefits m=
ust actually appear. That requires growth.</div><span class=3D""><div><br><=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:so=
lid;padding-left:1ex">I think there&#39;s a difference between natural grow=
th and the kind of=C2=A0growth that&#39;s being proposed by bank-backed sta=
rt-ups and pro-censorship=C2=A0entities.<br></blockquote><div><br></div></s=
pan><div>What difference? Are you saying the people who come to Bitcoin bec=
ause of a startup are somehow less &quot;natural&quot; than other users?</d=
iv></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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