Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5uWF-0004Wd-Cv for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 11:31:35 +0000 Received: from mail-wg0-f49.google.com ([74.125.82.49]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Z5uWD-0007cc-89 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 11:31:35 +0000 Received: by wgfq1 with SMTP id q1so40546030wgf.1 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 04:31:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=3y91yeh3dU6wpk7cofaC1RwEYT9v9CATbp58e1GQGfU=; b=YqKcgdWwYG4hSAz+ssfRLa0hxDzhLgTJbilcEgyeOt67XoK1FWbeIptfyi3vxd/UFU kZ+qgLoYX52UOJAnOIqctvVEYQYzoAezY9wP0eCjgMEh8ObL7P2KcD4Jr2uMjrDymXhW me+xHNOZUJiYM1BOFnZaohP3eK3pmgzbJ/skoYcaZOJfc7FSBi42C9n5gBnnF0rr5Jlq uEU1w9JpDmI/dbNgGs+oVw5EMSJWAatHy2D6sFX8B+l7hSuF4Vizj7nu2Iexiv/c1BiU Yjq9Q1BQn5KuWnRkGAcCA6tIe6GX6WpMiOeSHKImXXBpHk4SN70pFVpp7kt5GIScHSVK cv4w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQllN6SFvks4R4eSviaEcVtdvGtor80eYB2ivvI185nUOfOYhnCXRHCB+V7qW8r9GDdB5kP9 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.80.229 with SMTP id u5mr5587394wix.92.1434713487205; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 04:31:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.139.235 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 04:31:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <55828737.6000007@riseup.net> <55831CAB.2080303@jrn.me.uk> <1867667.WXWC1C9quc@crushinator> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 13:31:26 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= To: Mike Hearn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 0.2 AWL AWL: Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address X-Headers-End: 1Z5uWD-0007cc-89 Cc: Bitcoin Development , Gavin Andresen Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Concerns Regarding Threats by a Developer to Remove Commit Access from Other Developers X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 11:31:35 -0000 On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: >> Or alternatively, fix the reasons why users would have negative >> experiences with full blocks > > > It's impossible, Mark. By definition if Bitcoin does not have sufficient > capacity for everyone's transactions, some users who were using it will be > kicked out to make way for the others. Whether that happens in some kind of > stable organised way or (as with the current code) a fairly chaotic way > doesn't change the fundamental truth: some users will find their bitcoin > savings have become uneconomic to spend. He doesn't mean that: he means solving the mempool and crashes and hitting the limit would have. If the chain has limited size it is a scarce resource and people have to bid for it: nothing unexpected or wrong about that. Of course, people that believe the limit should be completely removed eventually because they don't care about mining being decentralized (or fail to see the relation between the two) may have a very different view about this. On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:08 PM, GC wrote: > Timeframe for transaction fees topping block reward fees => many years in > the future, based on current ratio of block reward to fees. Do you think that this ratio is unrelated to an abundant (non-scarce) block size? When is the right time to allow space pressure to rise that ratio? When the subsidy is at 1.5625, for example, it may be too late to start a non-catastrophic transition from subsidies to fees. I don't claim to know that, but it's something that worries me. No matter how many people say "that's too far away in the future to worry about it", I still worry about it and I'm sure more people do. What if "when it's time to care about it" we discover that we should have started to do things about it long ago to minimize the risks of this transition?