Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40B001043 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 03:34:07 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-ig0-f174.google.com (mail-ig0-f174.google.com [209.85.213.174]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A00E0E0 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 2015 03:34:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ig0-f174.google.com with SMTP id to4so28681227igc.0 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:34:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=3fL/uhvBduepvHI9jiCmEPXKNier8/GQ5PstXHcwFwQ=; b=u4KBEYPGpZEdjSln4G/58SCJYIeMRDbwvRYii32bdBelINR09Mc6E+Gy+6/gxVY5vt QOuahDGslEbGa0tGhoOEBFc7lCcQ++yletAC3EG9HgqTeARSwyxFs9KPgbjPNRZ1KY+b IxYZ9jrhjDFlnODn4GtcKtK4s7dDP7agb8+qVp8aE1ckxSTFDdM9cK86QwhAcTSjG0bx hFn7disFGSaSaD10X4UgDnVAg9LAotHOLy95OCqvs4wAWWtuQE5epornmWdvxom0GJSV CguxQsERMlbPg0spHTK4C/rbzXwgH9gfNpdWB7sfLeu5/YIRIePDekfgTrCpZuoN+66I 0Nlg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.30.100 with SMTP id r4mr13367120igh.23.1450668846132; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:34:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.79.8.198 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 19:34:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <99D24C78-CAEE-4E48-A454-CA82B317D44B@petertodd.org> References: <50e629572d8de852eb789d50b34da308@xbt.hk> <1449961269.2210.5.camel@yahoo.com> <20151220112454.GB16187@muck> <99D24C78-CAEE-4E48-A454-CA82B317D44B@petertodd.org> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 22:34:06 -0500 Message-ID: From: Jeff Garzik To: Peter Todd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f83938742b86e05276029a9 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin development mailing list Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Forget dormant UTXOs without confiscating bitcoin X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 03:34:07 -0000 --e89a8f83938742b86e05276029a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 11:35 AM, Peter Todd wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > > > On 20 December 2015 08:30:45 GMT-08:00, Chris Pacia > wrote: > >On Dec 20, 2015 6:34 AM, "Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev" < > >bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > > >> 2) This reverses the useful minimization attribute of HD wallets - > >"just > >backup the seed" > > > >It would be nice if the bip37 filter matching algorithm was extended to > >serve up the proof. > > > >And if server-based wallets did the same it would preserve the "just > >backup > >the seed" functionality. > > Exactly! The information will be out there - "just backup the seed" > requires someone to have the exact same data needed to generate the > TXO-unspent proof that my proposal requires to spend an old txout. > > tl;dr: jgarzik is incorrect; theres no difference at all from the status > quo. > The data stored in the legacy case makes it possible to sign and send a transaction without any connection to a network. The data stored in the upgraded case, absent grandfathering, requires significant network sync at a minimum. The user experience and security parameters are different. Thus, issue/recommendation #1. --e89a8f83938742b86e05276029a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 11:35 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org&= gt; wrote:
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Hash: SHA512



On 20 December 2015 08:30:45 GMT-08:00, Chris Pacia <ctpacia@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Dec 20, 2015 6:34 AM, "Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev" < >bitcoin-dev@li= sts.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> 2) This reverses the useful minimization attribute of HD wallets -=
>"just
>backup the seed"
>
>It would be nice if the bip37 filter matching algorithm was extended to=
>serve up the proof.
>
>And if server-based wallets did the same it would preserve the "ju= st
>backup
>the seed" functionality.

Exactly! The information will be out there - "just backup = the seed" requires someone to have the exact same data needed to gener= ate the TXO-unspent proof that my proposal requires to spend an old txout.<= br>
tl;dr: jgarzik is incorrect; theres no difference at all from the status qu= o.

The data stored in the legacy case m= akes it possible to sign and send a transaction without any connection to a= network.=C2=A0 The data stored in the upgraded case, absent grandfathering= , requires significant network sync at a minimum.

= The user experience and security parameters are different.

Thus, issue/recommendation #1.


=
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