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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:51:14 -0700
Message-ID: <CALimQCXCjkBc7QbsLgM-q7pth4nhZ8e8m60epgkBhcJUf=kbZg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Ben Davenport <bendavenport@gmail.com>
To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b4724a207432b04f48170c5
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	Wendell <w@grabhive.com>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc
Precedence: list

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Another vote in support of uBTC. I made my position clear in May of last
year. Since then, Dogecoin has essentially PROVEN the psychological value
of a low-valued large-balance currency.

(From: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220322.msg2334059#msg2334059)

"The whole unit change seems so disruptive and difficult to coordinate now
-- do we really want to have to deal with another one later when there are
way more people to try to coordinate? I really think we should look to the
endgame and figure out where we want to be.

"I'd propose moving to uB (micro-bitcoin = 1e-6) as the standard unit now
and forever. For now, it can be referred to as uB or uBTC, but over time,
once it's ubiquitous, it should just be called a bitcoin. Because the
smallest unit is the satoshi (1e-8), this means uB-denominated prices would
get 2 decimal places maximum, which is the most that any consumer wants to
deal with anyway.

"At the same time, I'd propose inverting the exchange rate, so instead of
quoting uB/USD = .00013, it would be quoted as USD/uB = 7692. This is
exactly the same way Yen are quoted relative to USD (USDJPY = 100.66), and
is also the same way other private virtual currencies such as WoW gold are
quoted."





On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:

> You would only need to change it if there was a sub-satoshi hardfork,
>> which doesn't seem necessary anytime soon.
>>
>
> +
>
> We shouldn't make any assumptions about the future price of bitcoin to
>> make the decision.
>>
>
> Hmmm ;) Didn't you just make an assumption about the future price?
>
>
>> This sounds very US-centric to me. Aren't you thinking in usd?
>>
>
> The currencies I'm familiar with are CHF, USD, EUR and GBP, which all have
> roughly similar values. I guess such currencies make up the bulk of the
> Bitcoin userbase at the moment.
>
>
>> "People seem to like mBTC" is just an ad populum fallacy: millions of
>> flies can actually be wrong. Also you haven't showed them micros,
>> maybe they like it too.
>
>
> Saying "it's already popular and would take work to change" is not really
> a fallacy now, is it?
>
> But anyway, this is getting silly. You don't have to convince me. Go visit
> all the services I listed above, plus all the ones I didn't find in my five
> minutes of searching, and convince them they're wrong like the flies and
> switching is the best use of their time :o
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Another vote in support of uBTC. I made my position clear =
in May of last year. Since then, Dogecoin has essentially PROVEN the psycho=
logical value of a low-valued large-balance currency.<div><br></div><div>(F=
rom: <a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D220322.msg2334059=
#msg2334059">https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D220322.msg2334059#ms=
g2334059</a>)</div>
<div><br></div><div>&quot;The whole unit change seems so disruptive and dif=
ficult to coordinate now -- do we really want to have to deal with another =
one later when there are way more people to try to coordinate? I really thi=
nk we should look to the endgame and figure out where we want to be.<div>
<br></div><div>&quot;I&#39;d propose moving to uB (micro-bitcoin =3D 1e-6) =
as the standard unit now and forever. For now, it can be referred to as uB =
or uBTC, but over time, once it&#39;s ubiquitous, it should just be called =
a bitcoin. Because the smallest unit is the satoshi (1e-8), this means uB-d=
enominated prices would get 2 decimal places maximum, which is the most tha=
t any consumer wants to deal with anyway.</div>
<div><br></div><div>&quot;At the same time, I&#39;d propose inverting the e=
xchange rate, so instead of quoting uB/USD =3D .00013, it would be quoted a=
s USD/uB =3D 7692. This is exactly the same way Yen are quoted relative to =
USD (USDJPY =3D 100.66), and is also the same way other private virtual cur=
rencies such as WoW gold are quoted.&quot;</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:29 A=
M, Mike Hearn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net" targ=
et=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>You would only need to change it if there was a sub-satoshi hardfork, =
which doesn&#39;t seem necessary anytime soon.</div>
</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div class=3D""><div>+</div><div><br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>We shouldn&#39;t make any assumptions about the future price of bitcoi=
n to make the decision.</div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Hmmm ;)=
 Didn&#39;t you just make an assumption about the future price?</div><div c=
lass=3D"">

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>This sounds very US-centr=
ic to me. Aren&#39;t you thinking in usd?<br></div></blockquote><div>
<br></div></div><div>The currencies I&#39;m familiar with are CHF, USD, EUR=
 and GBP, which all have roughly similar values. I guess such currencies ma=
ke up the bulk of the Bitcoin userbase at the moment.</div><div class=3D"">
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
&quot;People seem to like mBTC&quot; is just an ad populum fallacy: million=
s of<br>
flies can actually be wrong. Also you haven&#39;t showed them micros,<br>
maybe they like it too.</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Saying &quot;=
it&#39;s already popular and would take work to change&quot; is not really =
a fallacy now, is it?</div><div><br></div><div>But anyway, this is getting =
silly. You don&#39;t have to convince me. Go visit all the services I liste=
d above, plus all the ones I didn&#39;t find in my five minutes of searchin=
g, and convince them they&#39;re wrong like the flies and switching is the =
best use of their time :o=A0</div>

</div></div></div>
<br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br>
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O&#39;Reilly Book<br>
&quot;Graph Databases&quot; is the definitive new guide to graph databases =
and their<br>
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,<br>
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf=
.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech</a><br>_____________________________________________=
__<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
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" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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