Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VZhSs-0001hK-GF for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 25 Oct 2013 13:30:10 +0000 Received: from mail-pd0-f169.google.com ([209.85.192.169]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1VZhSr-0007wP-8F for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 25 Oct 2013 13:30:10 +0000 Received: by mail-pd0-f169.google.com with SMTP id q10so4006033pdj.28 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2013 06:29:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=5nh9UuQt80K5UwcsKIurFn4hoWVV7yZoExBndYlDgvY=; b=ikbmBANXygjeG2SiUUBY5Xj/o8ParXM6vexWC3SUpZ23eYuppk7iANI5nE9kRagd62 H8evKo37d35NFgpRH19gqj5FIF8TyeFw7B0lAfYX7Wk6MgUqGJTf/OF42zyhoNdHaYs2 ttJun4PtxuDVIc+uSnPIt2LhYaU/ZrJXSKTKPnKJAKlMqkktgn+fdVsrhHZjydZrHqbB v+nD4KFn/0kV3jBETYnEt+mTimqcWzCObbrsoMBeIO/x3OAe4twlFymTxnunbiTjCyoy jdOiUGuGSdfBjSPmoDbjVcuofKr9h6Xd67tIouVInjzl/l+pFmjkyUv7C3bZZdA+roTD TrZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlEaNcXpESEdAvqVFIT3sdidx4dj3L8piuJin15weOdm7AJd0/ApZGOy9J9E8VGYgubes62 X-Received: by 10.66.27.173 with SMTP id u13mr10514890pag.65.1382707798486; Fri, 25 Oct 2013 06:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phobos.local ([69.239.249.252]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hu10sm9615605pbc.11.2013.10.25.06.29.56 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 25 Oct 2013 06:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <526A7255.1060101@monetize.io> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 06:29:57 -0700 From: Mark Friedenbach Organization: Monetize.io Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andreas Petersson , Bitcoin Dev References: <20131024143043.GA12658@savin> <20131024144358.GA17142@savin> <20131024145447.GA19949@savin> <20131025070708.GA5760@savin> <91968c56640bf7647325728f490b9257@localhost> In-Reply-To: <91968c56640bf7647325728f490b9257@localhost> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.192.169 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: doubleclick.net] X-Headers-End: 1VZhSr-0007wP-8F Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 13:30:10 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 There's no reason the signing can't be done all at once. The wallet app would create and sign three transactions, paying avg-std.D, avg, and avg+std.D fee. It just waits to broadcast the latter two until it has to. On 10/25/13 5:02 AM, Andreas Petersson wrote: > > >> Worth thinking about the whole ecosystem of wallets involved; >> they all have to handle double-spends gracefully to make tx >> replacement of any kind user friendly. We should try to give >> people a heads up that this is coming soon if that's your >> thinking. > > If there is a situation where wallets are supposed to constantly > monitor the tx propagation and recreate their transactions with > different fees, this would make a lot of usecases inconvenient. > half-offline bluetooth transactions, users with unstable > connections, battery power lost, etc, etc. - and last but not least > power concerns on hardware wallets on the bitcoincard (tx signing > drains a significant amount of power and should therefore only be > done once) > > -Andreas > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > October Webinars: Code for Performance > Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application > performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and > more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and > coprocessors. See abstracts and register > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60135991&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSanJVAAoJEAdzVfsmodw4RHYQAKBrku4S80GXtbt4wBgkRMgx EQuobBrwtknxHOhKyYuBeAJ+h8ao1zSSNeqLvS5fJShH7vwBD2UOePLw4Nsy5p9U pe56c07pRmgi+EWdq/3o1tggp9HN0FR3HDRwt03U4qrPTx449kHb11aOw5KZH7VS ZiG09gKxkMPOtUy9dmVukjkG3zQ1AWjax+aOoseCnkU8u1I4kfhOyWLIjD7ciMm4 07gD8MzBLHTfJ6/pwUczQCby76Xdg51G/5d/toT3EnXyEOC7tCbI4xunAn1eIyg3 eCUNYaOQ7WYV9tjBUDGFwjVkGDJ8KdzEUqMPEK5nAWF29vmrwBSGJ4H2C47OkTQA 58Ie0hEYc5FMNuUCUWz3IGt2zoQ/8YENtNUDKG8oVoNhAIp5zkLK8wsMAJjZP6WM z56JUl8NZ2Ka5U1OelImGGVZIx4NXrXlccyxemAn3/c+krkpNv0CHAeMCeNbPG8i e4l2vQandiBW4NBGVYcm5A/EO6VJHAJhLEPT0pjmbuq4qTACo4Fgeb0LpOnWb/1a 6b1SdGGhMMrXeR2IaIbnx0+0WArixsOPl9w+R9WbrMh8g7hYBLH8EpGrRj0omim7 OoJb+W599HU37XZyWtuov+8Ouh5DpnP9l4hvNxHmro77uPPq10i/ibMd0Bnm4zZd ALtIYpYYgUCN1D9lQwPQ =BjIH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----